BBO-IAC grizz: Hi all, and welcome grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. grizz: For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. I am available for tournaments as well. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page. grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: As always I encourage participation by all kibs grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat grizz: Since I can't always respond to private chat grizz: We usually do random hands, and all areas of bidding, defense and declarer play are open for comment. grizz: hmmmm that's a pretty ugly 13-count! grizz: but most folks would open it, i guess grizz: weak NT-ers have any easy 1NT bid grizz: SAYC and 2/1 might vary grizz: some pairs play that 1!d guarantees 4 cards, so they would open this 1!c grizz: even on the 234! grizz: that is called Italian Style, or 5542 as sometimes seen in player profiles grizz: others will open the better minor, and start with 1!d grizz: i like 1!d to show 4, so i would open 1!c here grizz: notice also that sometimes this bid inhibits a !c lead, if the hand declares in NT grizz: how many of you have agreements with your partners about this auction? (1NT-X-?) grizz: i play that X is for penalty, and anything else is natural and nonforcing JohnTaylor: 2!S is negative free ? grizz: in a sense grizz: this is the only sequence where i play it grizz: since otherwise you must start so many sequences with X JohnTaylor: over 1NT ? grizz: right grizz: X is for penalties JohnTaylor: sounds like a plan :) grizz: and the chances of game being on over a 1NT opener are pretty remote, and a 1NT overcall is about the same as a 1NT opener pegasus1: I agree - a X of a 1NT overcall is penalities. With 9+ hcp, leave it in. grizz: so with my regular partners, any suit bid is natural and NF grizz: that puts all the pressure on your LHO grizz: who might venture 3!h on this hand, but wouldn't feel very good about it grizz: any other ideas on the auction? arcoflecha: if south should have 4 spades, what should he bid ? arcoflecha: pass ? grizz: i would not bid with only 4, especially bad ones like these bbo_iac: I have seen some people bounce off the nt bid and use it to transfer etc bad idea? grizz: as responder or advancer? bbo_iac: responder..so here would bid 2!h to transfer to !s grizz: there is a good argument to be made in this auction that responder's bid should be a transfer grizz: so that: grizz: 1. the strong hand is concealed, and grizz: 2. the strong hand is on lead grizz: those are both convincing arguments grizz: so i like transfers, but it's easy to forget them in the heat of battle aspiring: makes it easier if west is on lead here grizz: right grizz: so let's play it both ways, ok? grizz: interesting play here gimit: clever grizz: those of you who know about finessing dummy, or have seen my lessons on the subject, grizz: know that if E rises with the A, then declarer cashes both the K and Q separately, taking two !H tricks. grizz: and this is one of the special applications of the rules of defense grizz: such as leading small from an honor, and big spot card from no interest grizz: so E plays W for the queen or jack grizz: it makes no difference now which way S plays it, only wins one !h trick grizz: of course it makes if E does not finesse dummy in !hs grizz: let's replay it now, using the transfer auction grizz: should W X here? grizz: and if so, what would it show? grizz: !H length? !h stopper? grizz: must be asking for a !h lead grizz: let's try it on for size grizz: N can accept the transfer with that nice 4-card suit grizz: pass? 3!h? grizz: i don't like 3!h at all with this 4333 hand grizz: and W cannot X, so we play 2!s in the north grizz: so what does E lead from this? bbo_iac: !h aspiring: !s grizz: and this shows exactly the dilemma that the transfer causes grizz: any lead that E makes could and is likely to give up a trick aspiring: trump lead causes no harm grizz: y, but pard did X !hs grizz: long odds on the !s finesse working, but it's worth a try slothy: trump promo in !C :):) grizz: now N is pickled grizz: must lose another for down 2 slothy: so much for transfer :) grizz: lol on this board, anyway grizz: of course, double dummy defense is always tough paruljain6->Club: so xfer after opps bid 1nt is common treatment? grizz: no, that is a special agreement BHNN: does it have a conv name? paruljain6: is it called something special? and does it apply for major xfer only? grizz: it must have a name, but i can't think of it right off BHNN: ok ty grizz: but it has some weaknesses grizz: 1. partner might forget it grizz: 2. you might forget it yourself! Canuckstan: 3 you both might forget grizz: lol right, Jon grizz: 3. might get a worse score anyway, as we did here grizz: so in general, i recommend the simple treatment: grizz: X is for penalty, with 9+ or so grizz: and any suit bid is natural and nonforcing Canuckstan: someone asked if minor Xfer also applies here? grizz: trf by S or W? Canuckstan: by south: is it only for majors? grizz: that would be up to partnership agreement grizz: if the auction goes, e.g.: 1!C-1NT-P-? grizz: then most pairs treat that as if 1NT overcaller had opened 1NT, so transfers and stayman are on grizz: so with this hand, W would bid 2!d, transferring to !h grizz: any other thoughts about this hand? arcoflecha: can't west open 1nt ? gimit: I agree grizz: ok, i agree too grizz: this all depends on what system N-S play vs. NT grizz: if X is for penalties, then X it is grizz: if X means something systemic, such as a one-suited hand in DONT, .... grizz: then X is risky grizz: let's say that X is penalty here grizz: what do you do if you are East? arcoflecha: pass bbo_iac: pass for me grizz: most would pass gimit: pass and pray cpgreene: pass for me rojune: sure grizz: gamblers might try 2!c Stayman, and hope grizz: ack!!! aspiring: with 3 hcp must pull x cpgreene: not enough points to bid 2!c stayman grizz: right, but some gamblers will stayman this hand anyway grizz: with a 4-4-5-0 hand, you can stand any response even with 0 hcp cpgreene: why can't west bid 2!c about two passes to him? grizz: now S's grit is tested cpgreene: now 4-4-4-1 hand good for 2!c grizz: this is a hand that might be tempted to Stayman grizz: lol grizz: gamblers again? grizz: 3!c? deniseb: 4 4 yes garbage lol grizz: white vs red, might work out ok gimit: no, p is dead grizz: or not! cpgreene: why not x 2!c bid for lead arcoflecha: why north bid 2 diamonds pls ? grizz: 2!d denying a major, assuming 2!c was Stayman arcoflecha: ok, ty grizz: i would not bid this way, and just did this to illustrate a point grizz: when you open 1NT, your partner is the captain of the partnership grizz: because responder knows opener's points and shape within narrow limits grizz: but opener has no idea what responder has grizz: so responder is in control grizz: if any action is to be taken, responder must take it grizz: W is absolutely hosed here, with only 1 dummy entry grizz: so 3!c looked OK from the W point of view grizz: but in the totality of the hand, it was a disaster grizz: with no entries to dummy, W can't take any finesses aspiring: helps if east plays dont runouts here grizz: and the 1NT overcall warned him about them being offside anyway gimit: you need 21-22 points for 3, and fit grizz: so W must pass 2!D grizz: ok, let's look at DONT runouts then grizz: if you play DONT runouts, then they work the same way as DONT overcalls grizz: btw, most pairs don't play any kind of runouts after strong NT openers, grizz: but many weak NT pairs use some form of runouts grizz: and no point count is necessary for any runouts, they are just a way to find a playable fit cpgreene: pls explain run-outs Canuckstan: what do you mean by the term "run out"? grizz: runout is a term for an escape sequence, to avoid an unplayable doubled 1NT contract cpgreene: i..e. ? grizz: such as the DONT sequence on this hand grizz: some have the following agreement, if 1NT is doubled for penalty: grizz: if responder has a 5 card suit, he bids it grizz: unless it is !cs grizz: then XX forces opener to bid !cs grizz: as in: grizz: 1NT-X-XX*-P-2!C* grizz: which is what E would bid here if he had long !cs grizz: if you play this system, then pass forces opener to bid a 5-card suit if he has one, or XX grizz: and then bid 4-card suits up the line, looking for any playable fit grizz: so if the auction goes 1NT-X-P*-P-? grizz: opener bids a 5-card suit, or XX if he has not grizz: and responder's Pass is alertable, as forcing a bid or XX grizz: yikes, this has spun totally out of control grizz: let's move on to another hand grizz: ho hum grizz: no drama on this hand, let's find a better one grizz: a word about negative doubles grizz: generally you need 7+ for a 1-level neg X, grizz: 8+ for a 2-level, and grizz: 10+ at the 3 level grizz: or compensating shape grizz: and this hand has lots of compensating shape Canuckstan: is there a way to show 5/5 majors there? grizz: and in answer to Jon's question, absent special agreements there is no way for S to show %-5 in the majors here onoway: is Michaels off here? grizz: yes, michaels is off grizz: 2!d would be a !d raise, and 3!c would be a better !d raise Canuckstan: what would 2nt be? grizz: natural and invitational, no major grizz: if you play disciplined takeout Xes, and have the agreement with partner that the first two are for takeout, then S can X here to show extra shape grizz: BUT grizz: unless you have that agreement, it could go very badly! grizz: N would be entitled to think that the second X was penalty grizz: so all things considered, S probably should pass here grizz: what a ratty bunch of problem hands we have today! grizz: just like in real life grizz: this hand is likely to be all over the map, on the traveller grizz: expect 10 different auctions at 10 different tables grizz: is anybody tempted to bid with the S cards? gimit: no, no Aces grizz: y, no aces grizz: and the !sK is a huge liability aspiring: i would be but that is me lol gimit: no protected honors exc hearts, no future grizz: and the 3!s is not real exciting either grizz: sounds like ops are in a 5-3, so pard has 2 grizz: and a fistful of losers grizz: so the smart choice is to pass and defend grizz: nothing remarkable about the play or defense grizz: double dummy, if E plays S for the !DQ he makes an overtrick onoway: 2!h makes as well? gimit: pls, what's double dummy? grizz: double dummy means you can see all the cards grizz: and make the best plays accordingly gimit: tks grizz: y, 2!h makes onoway: for n/s? grizz: but 3!h probably gets Xed, down 1 for 200 and a bad score grizz: E has a 2-way finesse guess in !ds grizz: on some hands you can play off winners, get a count on the hand, and decide later which way to take the hook grizz: no such luxury here grizz: E has to take the !S finesse, the !d is the only entry grizz: one other final thought about 2-way finesses grizz: there is a "frontwards" and a "backwards" way to take a finesse grizz: the field will take the finesse into the long !d hand, that is considered "frontwards" grizz: so if there are no other indicators on the hand, expect the field to play it that way grizz: so you have "field protection" grizz: any other thoughts on these hands? grizz: as in real life, they were all fights over part scores grizz: as 75% of hands are grizz: and judgment comes from playing thousands of them onoway: a bit back but if you play X over nt as penalty, what do you use for competing against it? grizz: we covered runouts grizz: to locate a playable fit grizz: any direct bid is natural and NF onoway: ok thank you onoway: are they alertable? grizz: ops are entitled to the benefit of the same information about agreements that you have with your partner grizz: but you are only required to state the agreement, not to interpret any particular bid or card grizz: ok, if there are no more comments or questions, let's wrap it up for today grizz: there are several possible agreements in that auction gloren: thanks! grizz: most pairs play that after 1NT-X-? grizz: systems are all on, transfers, stayman, etc aspiring: thanks for a great lessons pete:) bbo_iac: Thanks, Pete grizz: but after 1NT-2 grapes-? grizz: then something else kicks in grizz: Lebensohl for most 2/1 players grizz: thanks all for attending, and i'll see you next saturday gimit: Ok , thank you very much grizz: bye now Chas_P (Lobby): have you ever looked at Guoba runouts? ->Chas_P: no, can you send me something on them? thx Chas_P (Lobby): i will. i like it. it gives you the opportunity to land in your best fit....not just the first 4-3 you happen to hit on.