Puppet Stayman grizz: Hi all, and welcome grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. grizz: For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page. grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. DougC43: BIL? grizz: y, different club, but it has instructions on file recovery grizz: As always i encourage participation by all kibs grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat grizz: Since I can't always respond to private chat grizz: We usually do random hands, and all areas of bidding, defense and declarer play are open for comment. grizz: but last week we had some requests for Puppet Stayman grizz: so here we go grizz: the S hand has the shape and strength of a 2NT opener grizz: it is dangerous to open this hand 1!h, because many hands in the 3-5 range will make game grizz: but would not bid opposite 1!h grizz: so 2NT is correct bid, but you need a tool to disclose whether opener has a 5M grizz: as 2!c is to 1NT, so 3!c is Stayman after 2Nt grizz: but to cater to cases where opener has a 5M, we play Puppet Stayman grizz: where 3!c asks for a 5-card major grizz: sidebar - grizz: virtually the only hand that will open 2NT with a 5M is a 5532 grizz: 5332, sry grizz: rarely a 5422 grizz: and only riverboat gamblers will open 2NT with a 5431 grizz: so N knows that they have a 5-3 !h fit grizz: and with a ruffing value in !c in the short trump hand, 4!hs is a no-brainer grizz: so direct bid of a major after 3!c shows 5 in that suit grizz: the hardest thing to remember for responder is that he should ask even if his long major is 3! grizz: something like 2335 grizz: any questions before we look at another? anegada: nty spum1: no BHNN: when do we know the diff? between reg stayman and puppet? grizz: ah, good question. you must decide before playing whether to play regular or Puppet Stayman BHNN: oh..ok..ty grizz: if you play Puppet, then 3!c is always Puppet over a 2NT opener cdt: Can there ever be a problem playing puppet? grizz: as always, pard could forget :) grizz: or YOU might forget! BHNN: what is neg answer to puppet? cdt: So outside that it always works? grizz: but there are ways to discover 4Ms too, we will come to that grizz: there is nothing to the play here, so i will claim grizz: yes, there really is no big downside to Puppet except the extra memory work buddy44: some said it gives away to much information about hand distrubution? grizz: i hear that a lot grizz: but that information is more valuable to pard than to ops DougC43: many conventions give away information ... splinters, e.g., or Bergen raises grizz: whether you choose to play it or not, you should understand it so you recognize the auction when playing against others using it grizz: sure grizz: every bid in bridge gives away information grizz: but consider this: BHNN: 3d is neg as in reg stayman? cdt: How do you alert it? grizz: as for the 3 areas of bridge, bidding - declarer play - defense grizz: the first 2 areas improve more rapidly than the 3rd grizz: defensive skill lags for almost all players grizz: so giving information to the defense is rarely a terrible idea grizz: maybe at the very highest levels of play grizz: a kib asks, 3d is neg as in reg stayman? grizz: no, as the next hand demonstrates grizz: btw, the 3!c bid and responses should all be alerted grizz: i forgot that on the last hand, sry grizz: here is the "no" answer, opener has no 4- or 5-card major grizz: there are actually 2 parts to the 3!c alert grizz: 1. it asks for a 5M grizz: 2. it does not promise a 4M grizz: since responder should ask about majors even if his longest major is 3 grizz: any questions on this one? dae->Club: n kyno40: for p. 3!c bid needs 4 -5 points ? grizz: sure, or even some 3-counts grizz: with nice middle cards kyno40: ok ty grizz: subtract the !SQ from this hand, and it's still worth a shot, but just barely grizz: with 2 Ts, 2 9s, an 8 and 2 7s bbo_iac: do you need at least three in both majors, or only one grizz: only one is necessary grizz: the N hand here is a little too big to open 2NT grizz: so it goes 2!c-2!d-2NT grizz: and 3!c is still Puppet grizz: N does not have a 5M here, but does have 4!h grizz: 3!d says "i have either one or two 4-card majors" grizz: here is one of the tricky Puppet bids grizz: the 3!s bid DENIES 4!ss!!! grizz: and PROMISES 4!hs!!! grizz: this is the "puppet", making the strong hand bid the suit DougC43: sort of the way Smolen works grizz: yes, similar to Smolen grizz: if N had no 4- or 5M, N would bid 3NT as on the last hand grizz: since N has 4!hs, and knows that S has 4!hs, the !h game is on xxx_cpt: How does P Stayman bidder deny a 4 card major period. grizz: 3NT, as in the last hand kyno40: just wait i am sure it will come up grizz: and if opener has 1 or 2 4M, he bids 3!d as here grizz: and responder with only 1 major will bid the other, the short one Dianne0516: and 3nt if M is not hearts, right? grizz: right grizz: i forgot a couple alerts last hand, sry grizz: E has 1 or 2 4Ms, but no 5M grizz: W has both majors, and knows that E has at least 1 grizz: so 4!d says "bid your 4M, take your choice with 2" grizz: any questions on this one? anegada: same after 1nt just 1 level lower ? barbhow->Club: how about over 1nt? grizz: you may choose to bid Puppet over 1NT, the responses will be just one level lower grizz: but there is very little advantage huber225: how come most people play this over 2 nt instead of l nt? barbhow: would some use it ONLY over 2nt? cdt: could u alert the next one so we have for record please grizz: because of the need to open a 20+ balanced hand in NT with a 5M grizz: there is no such need at 1NT, just open the major huber225: ty grizz: ok, i will re-send this one with alerts DougC43->Club: i've read that there are technical problems with puppet over 1NT but it didn't say what the problems were grizz: over 1NT, many auctions are forced to the 3 level grizz: does everybody see the alert descriptions? BHNN: y cdt: yes thanks :) laserxx: y BHNN: Q? grizz: yes grizz: but notice that on this hand W has only 5 hcp, might pass a 1!d bid grizz: and that is the problem Puppet was designed to solve grizz: since many 3-5 hcp hands will make game opposite 2NT openers with 5Ms grizz: hands too weak to bid over 1!h or 1!s openers grizz: for the record, let me say that i play a form of Puppet over 1NT with my regular partner grizz: but we play a strange 15-18 system with 5Ms DougC43: tell us more Dianne0516: form--meaning different from what you are showing us? grizz: yes grizz: i will do so, but we run the risk of confusion Dianne0516: maybe a different class :) grizz: how about we do that next week? kyno40: how do you adress when p. has 55 M pl. grizz: then transfer to one, and rebid the other Ishudav: With 5 - 3 in the majors, do you use Puppet or do you transfer? kyno40: ok ty grizz: it's judgment time with 5-3 Ishudav: k Campus61: tks was wondering grizz: how good is the 5? how good is the 3? Ishudav: right thx grizz: if pard has a 5M, he probably does not have 4OM grizz: so i usually bid 3!c with 5-3, rather than transfer grizz: but if the 5M were AKJT9, and the 3M were 234...... kyno40: would that be the only time with 55 M that you transfer to h first ? grizz: there are some choices over 1NT that you don't have over 2NT openers grizz: depends on partnership agreement to some extent grizz: but transfer to !h and then bid !s, so pard can park it in 3NT with no fit in either major Campus61: probably if pard is bidding 2nt ur probably not to strong so tranf to heart then bid spd with 5/5 cdt: So this is not something you can play with a pick up partner? DougC43: i would imagine that if you bid 3!C with a 5-3, and p denied a 5, you might then go on and ask for a 4, since 4 + a weak 5 is still pretty nice grizz: you can agree to play Puppet with a pickup partner, these principles are universally recognized grizz: in the sense that there is no "Modified", "Revised", or "Reverse" version of it grizz: with 5-3, if you ask 3!c and pard bids 3!d then bid the 3-card suit to show longer in the OM DougC43: cool grizz: i have lots more hands kyno40: nice cdt: save grizz: any questions on this one? grizz: 3NT opener's rebid with neither 4M grizz: seems odd to play this one in NT kyno40: if N 3s bid 4s after 3nt ? grizz: but what if N had small !Sxx? grizz: anyway, transfers are still on with Puppet grizz: with an extra !s, S could bid 4!h as Texas transfer to 4!s grizz: 3!h here denies 4!hs, but promises 4!ss grizz: and with no !s fit, 3NT is the garden spot grizz: darn it, 3!h needs to be alerted too grizz: any questions? grizz: the question now is whether S should make a slam try grizz: problem is that we used all the below-game bidding room for the suit fit grizz: so the only possible slam try is RKC grizz: but i wanted to show that in most Puppet auctions, responder gets to decide whether to go on dae: not good to do with losing doubleton? kyno40: 5d q asking grizz: sure kyno40: no cl lead pl. grizz: y, !c lead kills it ok grizz: hmm pass? grizz: that decision is for another class lol wyoming33: no grizz: questions? BHNN: 3nt here denies any 4 M grizz: 3NT by responder probably denies a 3M! BHNN: no meant on other one BHNN: sorry:( grizz: right grizz: 3NT rebid by opener denies either 4M cdt: Do you have to alert this? grizz: yes, everything from 3!c onward has a special meaning kyno40: i would say yes grizz: and ops are entitled to know what it is grizz: if you are playing against good ops, just click the box but don't give the explanation unless asked cdt: Well not the 3NT bid u just did that for demo right? grizz: yes, the 3NT denies a 3M by responder grizz: and ops are entitled to know that grizz: though responder might conceal a 3M or 2 if he is 4333 cdt: ok thanks grizz: this is a Texas Transfer grizz: with 6, you can transfer at the 4 level grizz: and just for yucks, i'll show you another variant too kyno40: south african version ? grizz: right, also called SAT analisals: why is better than 4 Diamonds wyoming33: wouldnt that ask for aces grizz: because opener can bid the intermediate suit with a superaccept hand like this grizz: so if responder is on the fence about slam exploration, that should tip the balance grizz: with this hand, S is not interested in slam grizz: but with more stuff, could bid RKC or cuebid his cheapest control xxx_cpt: 4!Cs reminds me. Do you play Gerber in any of these sequences? BHNN: why is 2nt opener's hand on bord? BHNN: board* Dianne0516: I don't get the advantage here grizz: using SAT, sometimes it gets "wrong-sided" mick357: what about the question how do you determine whether 4c is gerber or sat grizz: though it helps you find marginal slams grizz: that's the trade-off grizz: if you play SAT, you cannot play Gerber grizz: that's another tradeoff pegasus1: Yes, when you take on 1 new one, you give up an old 1 - partnership agreement kyno40: can you give us your thoughts on the baby food bid pl. grizz: well gang, that's about all the permutations and combinations possible grizz: on finding fits, anyway grizz: we will leave slam continuations for another day grizz: Gerber? xxx_cpt: Question on Gerber was broader than that. After 2NT - 3!C / 3NT is 4!C gerber. kyno40->Club: yes grizz: i like to play it only directly a NT opener or response, and only if !c is not a bid suit grizz: just my preference bbo_iac: Thanks very much Pete. Lots of food for thought for most of us here. Thanks all for coming grizz: some pairs play that 4!c is always gerber pegasus1: How about Gerber being only a JUMP bid after NT? wyoming33: 3!C is not a bid suit grizz: right nyleh: thanks; much food for thought xxx_cpt: thanks. And a lot of others share it. analisals: ty Pete anegada: ty Dianne0516: Thanks so much Pete camilleln: ty!! mick357: tx pete:) grizz: ok, we will do Lavings NT structure next week, just for a change of pace cdt: Thanks great lesson much appreciated :) lenia1: tks pete gloren: thanks....great lesson! kyno40: thank you Grizz very good lesson grizz: and to show how it compares and contrasts with Puppet grizz: thx, and thx for attending :) grizz: seeya next week! cdt: bye mick357: bye