grizz: Hi all, and welcome grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. grizz: For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page located at: http://www.grizzbridge.com/Lessons_and_Archives.php grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: As always i encourage participation by all kibs grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat grizz: Since I can't always respond to private chat grizz: We usually do random hands, and all areas of bidding, defense and declarer play are open for comment. grizz: question here - whiz: 3s grizz: what would 3!s mean? and what would 4!s mean? whiz: dtrpnger 3 grizz: right whiz: stronger 3 grizz: and what would some other 3 level bid mean? wyoming33: cue stoppers - slam try anegada: bergen whiz: gane try grizz: probably a control cue, looking for slam JDHILTS: LOOKING FOR NT ? grizz: so what do we choose here as East? grizz: only 13 hcp, but it's a great 13 JohnnyHiLo: 4s JDHILTS: MY SELF 2 NT norrito1: 3!C grizz: bid NT after a !s fit is found? to what purpose? JDHILTS: IF SPADE FIT WAS FOUND WOULD YOU NOT BID IT AT WEST grizz: i like a control cue here grizz: possible, and the W hand is a good candidate. why? grizz: the 4333 shape grizz: there is no ruffing value in the short trump hand grizz: so then the only advantage to playing in a suit would be if the hand was suitable for a dummy reversal JDHILTS: NOT SURE WHAT REVERSAL IS :) grizz: ruffing losers in the long trump hand, and making dummy the master hand grizz: so why would W think that dummy reversal might or might not be on here? grizz: the 2!h bid 2 was natural, so E has 9+ cards in the majors grizz: so any ruffs in the E hand would have to be in the minors grizz: and W's minor cards are all honors, so there is no advantage here grizz: so W suggests playing in NT grizz: but E is not really excited by that prospect grizz: should E pull or pass? whiz: 4spades grizz: that stiff !d looks awful for NT wyoming33: right whiz: ruffing grizz: and the !s suit doesn't look great for NT either, missing 2 top honors anegada: 4 sp grizz: though there are enough entries in the hand that W could lose 2!ss and still get there to cash the winners grizz: E must be wondering something here wyoming33: how good west !Ds are grizz: why would E support !S first, and then propose NT? grizz: 4333 would be one good reason grizz: but didn't 2!d show 5 long? grizz: and if so W would be 5332 wyoming33: nooooooooo bbo_iac: wasn't an overcall grizz: 2!d in this auction usually shows 5+, but does not guarantee it anegada: was 2/1 grizz: and might be the most descriptive bid available with a 4-bagger grizz: just like this hand grizz: but it must be a pretty good suit to bid 2 on just 4 grizz: one other thing grizz: if there are no ruffs available, then game is made on sheer strength JDHILTS: ? grizz: high card power grizz: and so the hand probably makes just as many at NT as it does at !ss wyoming33: west says have pretty good power with game force bid JDHILTS: CAN WEST BID 2 NT TO SHOW 11 PLUS HCP grizz: jd, you don't have to shout - we can hear you just fine if you type in lower case grizz: the 2!d was a GF bid grizz: but back to the NT vs suit analysis JDHILTS: NOT SHOUTING BUT MAYBE YOU MIGHT REALIZE ITS EASIER TO SEE FOR SOME :) JDHILTS: BYE grizz: if the hand makes as many tricks at NT as it does in !s, then the scoring bonus for NT makes it a good gamble for matchpoint players grizz: and the 9 trick game has a 1-trick safety margin compared to !s grizz: so E probably has a good pass here, despite the 8-card !s fit grizz: and that is all a long answer to a short question - grizz: why would you run from a 5-3 major fit? wyoming33: you already said - at MP - may be diference in top board or not - grizz: yes, could certainly be that difference grizz: ok, let's turn now to declarer play and defense grizz: no difference at all in imps, and NT is probably safer here grizz: but this is the kind of analysis that experts do in matchpoint games all the time, looking for that little extra edge over the field grizz: so next question is, what to lead? grizz: actually, before we get there we need to lay out a plan of defense grizz: and then choose a lead grizz: so how best to defend this one? grizz: first let's count some tricks grizz: as N, you heard E-W bid !ss, so they have 8 grizz: if they had 9, they wouldn't run from the !s fit unless W was specifically 4=3=3=3 grizz: and N can tell that !ss are breaking well for declarer, looking at 3 in his hand grizz: but W did not support !hs, and N has a doubleton grizz: that marks S with some !h length grizz: and the unbid major is frequently a good place to start grizz: any problems with that plan? grizz: just one, that helps declarer start setting up the !hs in dummy JAF1935: i'd attack !c it is bid by LHO :) grizz: and that !d holding is gold behind the !d bidder, so he should not lead !ds NMS04: when I lead a doubleton I always set up the suit for op whiz: l dont see advantage to play in nt with fit...lost at least ace !S !C k!D QH and what others maybe grizz: ergo, by process of elimination it looks like the !c lead is best grizz: this is a random hand, so i have not analyzed it grizz: but we can go back after this and play it in !s just to see what happens grizz: looks like W should set up the !s here, any things to watch out for? grizz: not really, even a bad split is no problem with a solid suit from the K-9 whiz: duck grizz: so attacking !s head-on is indicated grizz: y, is there any advantage to taking the !s now? whiz: and after d grizz: there is no big hurry to play !cs, is there? grizz: well, maybe there is grizz: N rates to have a few points over there grizz: if they are Axx left in !cs, he might have a side entry grizz: so best to set up the long !c now, while the side entry is still there JAF1935: I think once ducking were good here :) grizz: ducking can be a good play in some circumstances grizz: such as when a long suit can be isolated on the board sthrnldy: why wouldnt south want to set up the d knows dummy dont have any, lead thru strength grizz: but that is not the case here, with entries in !h and !c, as well as !s grizz: also, N might have some !d tricks grizz: if so, they won't all go away grizz: and they will be his entry for !cs, if we set them up now grizz: so that's what we do grizz: N can now show where his entry is, by the size of card he clears the suit with grizz: standard signals here grizz: no interest in !ds grizz: so W, with 4 tricks in the bag, has to decide what to do grizz: if the !d signal was true, then the !d finesse is off grizz: and S is somewhat more likely to be long in !hs, so the !h finesse might be off too grizz: take 2!s, 2!h and a !d and run? grizz: or cross to the !dA and hook the !h? grizz: or play top !h first, then cross and hook? grizz: at first glance it seems safest to play on !hs wyoming33: got to keep that !D 1cd - just force !H !Q grizz: even if the hook loses, that guarantees 3!h tricks grizz: but if W burns the !DA for transportation and the !h hook loses, then a !d return is big trouble grizz: we could play !hs from the top and hope the Q drops Qx grizz: otherwise, there is no entry to the board to cash the long one anyway grizz: and the !d risk tips the scale enough to decide the play grizz: there is one last thing to consider grizz: what if S has the !dK? grizz: if so, a !h will endplay S grizz: nah grizz: ok, makes 3 on the nose grizz: let's see what happens if we play in !s grizz: plays the other direction this time, so different lead problem tessy: hi grizz: so what is S's best plan of attack here? grizz: doesn't sound like EW have a big 2-suit fit, so no reason to go active on defense and risk giving away tricks grizz: neither defender is long in !s, so Forcing Defense won't work JAF1935: I think here is to draw trumps as both climbed to the game :) grizz: not exactly, this was not a weak auction grizz: Passive might be OK, but S might kick himself later if E ruffs anything in dummy grizz: they didn't blunder into game grizz: but it can't hurt a thing to cut down on ruffs, and make E work for every trick cpgreene: esp holding 4!h east might want to trump in dummy grizz: looks like E has 3!s, 2!h, 1!d and 2!cs cpgreene: y grizz: needs to dig an extra trick out somewhere grizz: either red suit finesse could be on wyoming33: as noted earlier -dummy reversal grizz: but there is an extra small chance that the !HQ is stiff in either hand grizz: so a top !h first caters to that possibility grizz: we will leave !cs for last, in case we need them for transportation grizz: E had no interest in either !d or NT, did he? grizz: hmm grizz: 10 tricks are in the bag now, even with the !h hook off grizz: but there is an overtrick if the !dK is in the S grizz: bad decision grizz: matchpoint greed! wyoming33: :) grizz: lol so all that analysis was good, and very interesting, but also wrong! grizz: makes 3NT but 4!s, even with the flat dummy and no ruffs grizz: so is there a lesson to be learned here? grizz: the critical card was the !HT, totally by accident - there is no way to discover that during the auction wyoming33: dont play NT unless you have to _ LOL grizz: lol NMS04: make your game anegada: :) cpgreene: don't take a finesse unless you need it to make contract grizz: some of us enjoy playing NT more than others :) grizz: excellent point on the finesse anegada: with 8 card fit play in a suit grizz: though matchpoint players take all kinds of risks to make extra tricks, even at the risk of going set cpgreene: true cpgreene: but not at imps grizz: on this kind of hand i prefer to play NT, because without the dummy ruffs more often than not the suit contract will not make the extra trick grizz: quite right grizz: imps is a different game whiz: what did it happen if they lead small d grizz: on the go or at trick 8? whiz: on the go cpgreene: i too would lead trump holding 4 in declarer's second suit grizz: y, the trump lead is much better here grizz: though the !d lead puts E to the guess before he knows anything about the hand grizz: and a small !d might convince him to take the hook whiz: harder o n the declarer plays grizz: y, exactly grizz: before my train of thought gets derailed though, let me finish the comment about imps vs. mps grizz: mps is like playing with chips, somebody else's chips at that whiz: ok lol grizz: imps is like playing with money, your own money! cpgreene: lol grizz: so at mps you score by how many other pairs you beat, no matter by how much grizz: and you will sometimes risk going set if you might score an extra trick cpgreene: are most team matches today played at imps? grizz: but at imps the prime imperative is to make the contract, and heck with overtricks grizz: yes, most team games are scored at imps grizz: or a second cousin, Victory Points wyoming33: and most club games at MPs grizz: which measures the difference between imp scores grizz: and most pair events and nearly all club games are mp grizz: let's take one more look at this hand grizz: whiz thinks that putting declarer to the guess at trick 1 is a good idea grizz: and in general, i agree cpgreene: don't think i would can count 3 losers without taking the risk cpgreene: too early in the hand for risk grizz: i agree with that too grizz: E has to do all his counting and risk assessment before playing to Trick 1 cpgreene: q!h could be dbltn and !h would come in grizz: sure grizz: or the !HQ could be in the N cpgreene: yep wyoming33: if had 2 !D wd be very tempted - but why take chance with only 1!D grizz: so 50%+ that !hs will behave grizz: and even if the hook loses, with the AKJT9 there are 3 winners grizz: right cpgreene: if s leads trump would most prob put him in with long !h grizz: so i think our initial defense strategy was correct, and with length in declarer's second suit a trump lead is best wyoming33: and most would not lead from KJ grizz: if i'm E here, i take the A and sort out the !D situation later cpgreene: y grizz: maybe there is an endplay in the works grizz: well gang, our time is up now, thanks for coming and I'll see you next week. Dianne0516: Thanks Pete :) wyoming33: thanks - nite grizz: we only looked at one hand, but we thoroughly aired it out guyb2: tyvm norrito1: tks Pete JohnnyHiLo: thanks for the smart analysis NMS04: thanks very much I did learn something! JAF1935: thx for the nice lesson :) grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. cpgreene: i have a question aside from this hand if you can help me where do i find info re "gesthem" bidding system ->NMS04: :) grizz: hang on re: Ghestem bbo_iac: thanks very much. Pete for sharing your time and expertise with us and thanks all for coming grizz: my pleasure :) grizz: http://homepage.mac.com/bridgeguys/Conventions/Ghestem.html cdt: Thanks Pete and Pam for hosting :) deniseb: merci sorry i was late :) whiz: time already up..................... ty grizz: Bridge Guys is a great source for information about treatments and conventions grizz: hope that helps cpgreene: tu sascha3: thank you great lesson grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: I am planning three different one-day courses on Defense, Declarer Play and Balancing, so it you are interested in any or all of these topics please drop me a line at ... grizz: Grizz@GrizzBridge.com grizz: Thanks for your interest and participation, and I hope to see you next week. cpgreene: tu for sharing ->cpgreene: :) ydannac: Thanks GRizz grizz: Grizz out. JAF1935: c u take care :)