grizz: Hi all, and welcome grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. grizz: For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page located at: http://www.grizzbridge.com/Lessons_and_Archives.php grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: As always i encourage participation by all kibs grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat grizz: Since I can't always respond to private chat grizz: We usually do random hands, and all areas of bidding, defense and declarer play are open for comment. grizz: borderline decision right out of the blocks grizz: 1!S? 2!S? Pass? beavchen: 1 !s wyoming33: 1!S guyb2: 1!s grizz: i like 1!s, but GIB likes 2!s grizz: i don't like 2!s for a couple reasons grizz: first, more than half the hcp are in side suits grizz: also this hand is chunkier than pard will expect, and will make game on many hands that pard should pass grizz: anybody like a different bid here? deniseb: int fc grizz: if S bids 1NT forcing, will he ever be able to convince pard that he has GF values and a !s fit? grizz: probably not grizz: so that bid causes downstream bidding problems that are totally avoidable grizz: playing either SAYC or 2/1, 2!h is a better bid here wyoming33: y grizz: but having chosen to open, N now must drag his feet deniseb: 3h then 2h not fc beavchen: lol 2h always forcing grizz: y, in any system grizz: no reason not to show the fit now wyoming33: south has 17 points - what is problem wyoming33: why not go to 4!S beavchen: slow slam beavchen: weak jump grizz: S knows game is on, but 3!s suggests slam wyoming33: north has shown minimum Dianne0516: 2/1 gf, no need to bid fast arrival grizz: implying a cuebid auction grizz: but N has no slam interest on this hand, so even though he has the !CA he doesn't show it Dianne0516: 3 !s stronger than 4 !s grizz: fast arrival showing a worse hand than bidding 4!c en passant wyoming33: well yes - if playing 2/1 then 3!S is okay - - but playing SAYC think should bid 4!S grizz: ok, i'll buy that :) grizz: since Fast Arrival does not apply to SAYC, and might miss game entirely grizz: ok, now let's switch sides and defend this one grizz: any ideas on a strategy and opening lead? grizz: sounds like NS have a hefty !h side suit Pearls23: 9!s dee_dee_20: poor E lol !d hoping pd is short or void? grizz: so side suit winners might go away if they don't find them right away grizz: this is the kind of auction that should convince you NOT to defend passively beavchen: J !d grizz: but to go hunt down your tricks, kill em and drag em home wyoming33: LOL grizz: ugh! grizz: what now? grizz: nothing looks good beavchen: clubs wyoming33: just return !C grizz: sure grizz: looks like D gets a !d and !h grizz: any comments on this hand? grizz: what if N opened 2!s, what should S do then? Dianne0516: K !s--safety play? puttchen: well, if he had opening hand and his 3 spades, i would take him to 4 spades grizz: ok, in case W has Jxxx grizz: several possibilities here grizz: S can just blast to 4 and hope grizz: but the more scientific among us may want to explore grizz: so what does 2NT mean? beavchen: feature or ogust guyb2: entry? grizz: in SAYC, that asks for a Feature puttchen: oh, to tell your p, u had an opening count, wouldn't s bid 2 nt Dianne0516: Ogust or feature grizz: so if they play Feature, then N tells S about an outside entry wyoming33: if at high end show feature if at low end rebid suit grizz: right grizz: so 3!c says 2 things - grizz: N is at the top of his range, and grizz: has a side entry in !c grizz: and S bids 4, perfect spot to land grizz: what if NS play Ogust? beavchen: 3 !s Dianne0516: 3 !h grizz: right Dianne0516: y Dianne0516: lol puttchen: that is what i was taught when opening 2 or a suit with the exception of clubs wyoming33: both right:) grizz: for those of you who don't play it, this is a step response convention that identifies both strength of hand and trump quality grizz: 3!c is artificial, showing minimum points and a bad suit grizz: so 5 to a bad 8, and only 1 of the top 3 honors grizz: 3!d shows a bad hand but a good suit, with 2 of the top 3 honors grizz: 3!h shows a good hand, 9-10 and a bad suit grizz: maybe a really good 8 or even 11 if vul. grizz: 3!s describes this hand, top of the range and a good suit grizz: some also include the 3NT bid to show a solid suit grizz: but others don't, so don't make this bid unless you have discussed it with pard grizz: so all methods lead to the promised land here :) grizz: does that change anybody's mind about whether to open 1!s or 2!s? wyoming33: not mine:) grizz: attagirl, the results on this hand don't change a thing in the grand scheme of things grizz: it's too easy on this hand to miss game if pard has 12-14 Dianne0516: opening Rule of 20 grizz: S here with 16 won't give up easily grizz: but with 12-14 would and should pass smoothly grizz: y, N passes the Rule of 20 test cdt: except if you have an agreement no to open those hand 0ver 10 as a weak two. grizz: and the 7 loser test too, though many weak 2's do that too grizz: good point grizz: some play that a vul weak 2 should be 8-11, but NV can be 5-10 grizz: related question: grizz: if the auction goes P-P-2!s-P-2NT grizz: what is 2NT here? still Feature or Ogust? or something different? grizz: i can't say for sure what the answer to that is wyoming33: wd hand weak 2 - :( could be almost anything leonora3: sounds like having passed originally, means to play grizz: but here is a suggestion grizz: don't make that bid! grizz: lol wyoming33: is 2NT still forcing in this instance cdt: lol wyoming33: sounds good :) Dianne0516: why bid if a passed hand grizz: just wondering :) wyoming33: also wd a new suit be forcing - assume not grizz: it's possible that pard passed a borderline hand and the !s bid really improved it cdt: hehe just trying to confuse us lol grizz: something like !SKxx-!HKJTx-!DKxx-!cQxx Dianne0516: If passed hand, wouldn't have the qts for game? grizz: almost never grizz: but maybe if: grizz: !SKxxx-!hKJTx-!dx-!cKJxx grizz: so i suppose it's best to treat 2NT as still forcing in this sequence, even by a passed hand grizz: though i would defend anybody's right to call that treatment crazy grizz: hmmm grizz: what should E do with this one? Dianne0516: p leonora3: easy p guyb2: p grizz: 7 losers grizz: Rule of 20 grizz: white vs red grizz: not interested? Dianne0516: y grizz: 2 choices here Dianne0516: changed mind :) guyb2: me too grizz: open and drag your feet, or pass and be aggressive later ArLady: pass first time around to let p not full opening grizz: the adventurous with rhino hide might open 2!d! leonora3: ugh grizz: not me grizz: tough decision for N now grizz: most savvy players would pass smoothly grizz: with length and strength in ops' suit, and without NT strength grizz: now what? guyb2: 3!d dee_dee_20: I/M ArLady: if they play inverted minors here could bid 2 d leonora3: i like 3!d grizz: what if EW play inverted minors? Dianne0516: 2 grizz: that's an easy one, IM is off by a passed hand ArLady: that is true lol cdt: yes Dianne0516: why? Can still have 10-11 hcp? grizz: in SAYC this is an easy 3!D, a Limit Raise in !d grizz: IM is off by a passed hand because you don't want 2!d to be strong grizz: so if IM is off, we revert to SAYC grizz: and 3!d is a LR grizz: maybe i passed too fast grizz: anybody think S should take action? grizz: stepping into this auction could be a very bad idea grizz: E is limited, but W is not grizz: and NS are vul, vs. NV grizz: N might have passed a full opener with !d length, or might be a lot less grizz: in any case, S is not in passout seat, so doesn't have to make a decision here grizz: easy pass for W grizz: so should N reopen? grizz: that !DK is a very ugly card wyoming33: north vul and knows has less than half points grizz: why couldn't it be a !S?????? lol grizz: N knows that pard is short in !ds, but did not make a takeout X grizz: and if E has a real LR, then S must be about broke grizz: so they might have a !s fit, but not enough HCP to bid and escape alive grizz: so others may disagree, but i would pass this one and live to fight another day grizz: ok, let's think defense now grizz: chances are that E and W are both short somewhere grizz: given that N has all the !d grizz: and N has all the points grizz: so any side suit lead is likely to surrender a trick grizz: so trump lead is passive grizz: if W has the A, then N still gets the K grizz: and if it's finessible, so be it wyoming33: was told by my first teacher always consider a trump lead at part score grizz: there are 2 of the 5 lines of defense that require trump leads grizz: Reduce Ruffs grizz: of course grizz: and Passive sometimes can stand a trump lead grizz: but if the auction suggests Forcing or Active defense or Creating Trump Tricks, then a trump lead is the wrong thing to do grizz: has anything changed here? is there a better idea than another trump? delcod1: what did your 4!c discard tell prt please ?? ArLady: well u see one spade in dummy grizz: a kib asks what the !c4 discard meant earlier ArLady: i think i play my ace wyoming33: and op has !Cs to discard !S on grizz: good thinking grizz: N can't kill enough ruffs to do much good, and the !cs are set up for discards grizz: so it's cashout time now wyoming33: OK LOL grizz: that is one of the toughest decisions for a defender to make grizz: when to give up on setting a contract, and cash out to limit overtricks grizz: and at matchpoints there are huge penalties for guessing wrong grizz: but there are some clues in suit contracts grizz: when there is no way for defenders to trump in, and side suit(s) already set up for discards, it's time to bail grizz: and N would have felt really silly if W had only !sQx, and dumped them both on !cs! grizz: one of my earlier lessons had a cashout decision grizz: about Trick 8 or so grizz: in a part score contract grizz: the decision whether or not to cash out meant the difference between 2!s making or 3!s with overtrick grizz: 2!s was a 65% score for the other side, and 3!s was 27% grizz: 1 trick at imps doesn't make a huge difference, but at matchpoints can be huge grizz: do we have any other thoughts about this hand? grizz: OK then, our time is up then, thanks for coming and I'll see you next week. cdt: Thanks Pete another great lesson full of good tips. :)!H grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: Thanks for your interest and participation, and I hope to see you next week. guyb2->Club: Thanks Grizz grizz: Grizz out. wyoming33: thanks :) Dianne0516: Thanks Peteode