grizz: Hi all, and welcome grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. grizz: For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page located at: http://www.grizzbridge.com/Lessons_and_Archives.php grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: I encourage participation by all kibs grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat grizz: ... since I can't always respond to private chat grizz: We usually do random hands, and all areas of bidding, defense and declarer play are open for comment. grizz: I will try to remember to insert the board numbers in the Chat Log, so you can match up the log with the hands file in the future. grizz: an interesting hand popped up in open play this morning, give me just a minute to find it grizz: here it is grizz: grizz: the 1!h is obvious, no discussion necessary jaymac: It says Board 7 grizz: but the 4!c overcall made it interesting and expensive right away grizz: y, it was Board 7 of the session i played earlier, but it's Board 1 in this lesson grizz: this is the key bid - 5C is an excellent !h raise grizz: sidebar - grizz: with this partner i play weak NT, 12-14 grizz: on the face of it you wouldn't think that's a big deal, so what if it's a king less than a regular strong NT grizz: here is the big deal: grizz: pard knows right away that i am either unbalanced, or 15+ grizz: unbalanced meaning that i have a stiff or void grizz: or i have a strong NT type hand, 5332 with !hs and 15-17 dae: ? what does weak nt have to do with the response? grizz: everything in the world! grizz: pard knows that i have a good hand when i do NOT open 1NT dae: ok ty wanduc: COOL!! grizz: so he knows that competing to the 5 level is correct grizz: not so on any old garden variety 1!h opener when you play strong NT grizz: X means !c support, or void, in any case the !c lead is safe grizz: pard would not make a free raise at the 5 level without slam interest grizz: my stiff !c means we have max 1 loser there grizz: and also pinpoints his side suit strength in the other suits mamadee: is that splinter? grizz: not necessarily - but it is a forcing !h raise mamadee: ok grizz: as opposed to direct 4!h, which might be preemptive grizz: but intentionally bypassing the 4!h game can only show slam interest grizz: and we have also bypassed 4NT for RKC grizz: so we could get into a cuebid auction, but with this pard i was certain it was not necessary grizz: and the !h finesse was on, making 6 grizz: and the !d finesse was also on, for the overtrick grizz: only a couple other pairs found the slam, and they did not contend with the 4!c bid grizz: so i just bring this one up as an example of high level competitive auctions grizz: and the virtues of weak NT grizz: and also some bridge logic dae: withouit the 4 c bid, what do u recommend for bidding dae: splinter? AMRON12: what happens if p doesnt play wk nt grizz: let's try it again grizz: grizz: seems likely that any decent W would compete with this hand grizz: decision time grizz: the 4!c is a GF bid grizz: so pard has 12+ support points, or 7- losers grizz: and i have 14 hcp, and 3 now for the stiff !c with the known !h fit grizz: and 6 losers grizz: so we are safe at the 5 level grizz: so i cue the !sa grizz: !h is the agreed trump suit, so that is the anchor for RKC grizz: that is another way to get there grizz: let me show you another - grizz: grizz: that is a very special bid, known as Exclusion Blackwood, which we play as RKC Blanca17: why 5 and not only 4, pls? grizz: jump to 5 in an unbid suit shows monster fit and void in that suit, and asks for controls OUTSIDE that suit grizz: and the answer is 0,1,2,3 etc Blanca17: thks grizz: so pard knows we are missing an A or the !hK, and maybe the Q too! grizz: so 6!h may be too high, but what the heck! dae: thought not to bid blackwood with void? grizz: it's OK if you have the bidding tools to deal with a void grizz: on a different hand, where W did not have that long !c suit, the auction may be like this - Campus61: 5spds 2kc +q? grizz: grizz: in XBW we don't give Q responses, though it is certainly possible to agree to do that grizz: OK, if W does not overcall, the question was, what does N do? dae: 4c or Jacoby? grizz: there are several choices here cc1313: 3d grizz: some apparent, others not so much grizz: the basic choices would be 1!s, 2NT, 4!c or Other dae: 15 support grizz: y, N clearly has a GF hand in !h grizz: 10 hcp, and 5 for the void grizz: which is clearly a useful void in this auction grizz: let me digress here for a few minutes grizz: many of you have heard this before, but it bears repeating grizz: of all the types of slam hands that exist, the most common type is the double fit grizz: so the most important information you need to exchange when you are in the slam zone is info about side suits grizz: so if N had a !h fit and a good 5 card suit below the rank of trumps, a simple 2/1 bid would be the place to start grizz: we don't have one here available :( grizz: but that answers the first question in an auction like this - grizz: do i tell about my good side suit, or ask about pard's? grizz: in other words, do i make a 2/1 bid or ask with J2NT? grizz: and most of the time it's best to tell grizz: but it's awkward with the hand where opener bids !hs and responder has !s, because it's hard to set up a GF auction at a low level grizz: but back to my story dae: not good to use Strong jump shifts , not quite strong enough for that? grizz: strong jump shifts eat up our own bidding space, and they are not necessary in 2/1 grizz: J2NT is normally used when you do NOT have a good side suit, a source of tricks grizz: anyway, the J2NT hand is usually a balanced hand, or a 4441 - that does not have a good 5 card side suit grizz: so J2NT does not describe this hand well, with the void grizz: 4!c tends also to deny a good 5-card side suit JanaDe: why would you not splinter on this hand? grizz: though it does pinpoint values in the other 2 suits grizz: and since side suit fits are so important in slam bidding, i would not conceal the good !s suit here grizz: so i would not bid 4!c or J2NT, though others may disagree grizz: so the problem now is how to establish a GF auction when responder has a !h and !ss grizz: here is one way, the 4th Suit Game Force method dae: alert 3 c? grizz: which tends to show 5 in the first bid suit, working sort of like New Minor Force grizz: and a risky delayed !h bid, showing support AND !ss grizz: so given the choice between a 5-4 !h fit and a 5-3 !s fit, we want to play !hs, don't we? grizz: so we get 2 pitches on the !ss? grizz: and the auction proceeds the same as before grizz: there is another way to set up a GF auction, would anybody like to see it? Dianne0516: y cc1313: y dae: y grizz: dae: N answers 2 controls? sascha3: yes grizz: very strange use of the forcing NT grizz: this is an impossible auction! dae: y sascha3: yes grizz: what is N up to, using forcing NT and then bidding !S, when he could have bid them at the 1 level? wanduc: yes could have called ! before sascha3: would not like to be part of it lol wanduc: !s grizz: answer is, to show a good hand that is hard to describe grizz: such as a GF hand with !hs and longer !ss grizz: etc dae: sounds like a drop dead bid 2s? grizz: but i would not recommend this auction unless your p is a deep thinker sascha3: lol grizz: the 4th Suit GF bid is unequivocal Dianne0516: You can use this anytime you could have bid it first time? grizz: y, there are some hands that just cannot be described easily grizz: so let's use some bridge logic on this one grizz: 1!s would be natural and NF dae: but no 4sf here, right? Dianne0516: NF? grizz: 1!h-1!s-2 grapes-2!s is natural and drop dead grizz: non forcing grizz: or it might have gone 1!h-2!s - that is 6+, and 3-5 hcp and also drop dead grizz: so there are 2 ways that N could bid a weak !s hand grizz: so using the forcing NT, the 2!s bid must be forcing - else why use the FNT? dae: whyd would 1 s be NF? grizz: ok, it's 99% forcing dae: ok ty grizz: point is, there are 2 different ways to show a weak !s hand grizz: weak jump shift for the really weak and long hand grizz: or rebidding !s with 5+ and a 6-8 hand grizz: so this auction must be at least invitational grizz: thus forcing for one round grizz: again, this is a weird auction and i don't recommend that you spring it on pard unawares grizz: but using the "impossible" bid and then showing a fit establishes a GF grizz: but the 4SGF does the same thing at a lower level with less chance of confusion and disaster grizz: btw, you don't need to play the whole 2/1 system, many pairs play SAYC with pieces of the 2/1 system grafted on grizz: like Forcing NT, New Minor Forcing, and 4SGF dae: but 1 S IS forcing,right? grizz: not 100%, but there are very few hands that pard would pass grizz: if opener were 3rd hand for instance, opening a subminimum dae: y agree, but not by UNpassed hand? sascha3: :):) grizz: y grizz: but you are not focusing on the issue at hand - other ways to distinguish other types of !s hands grizz: any other questions on this one? cc1313: y dae: n great lesson! grizz: :) sascha3: no ths cc1313: in the 1h, 4c, 5c u said jump in unbid suit.... grizz: hope it didn't sound like i was beating you up on that :) dae: n cc1313: yet opps bid that suit, clarify pls grizz: the Exclusion BW auction? cc1313: y grizz: that was in a 1!h-3!c-5!c auction grizz: where the 5!c was clearly a jump, and must be RKC with a useful void in !c cc1313: ok opps still bid that suit, it was not "unbid" grizz: wasn't bid by our side, which makes it "unbid" for us :) cc1313: ah ty :) cc1313: i take things too literally :( grizz: reason being that a void in a suit where pard holds honors is not an asset - it's a liability grizz: so a useful void is one that our side has not bid AS A SUIT grizz: though we may have bid it as a transfer, cue, or otherwise cc1313: ok understand, I think thx grizz: but never use XBW in a suit that pard has bid grizz: any other questions? sascha3: no grizz: grizz: we need some different cards here! cdt: y grizz: if N were to bid 3NT, that would show 13-15, no 4 card major but values for game grizz: this hand is 1 over that limit, but i like the bid anyway - grizz: since if S has extras he can continue, grizz: and N has some Ks to protect from the opening lead sascha3: it has to go down grizz: yup sascha3: for once maybe 5C is better grizz: y, it is one of those exception hands grizz: let's try it again grizz: grizz: i can't resend it to the table grizz: so will just comment on it grizz: S does not have to take the 3NT as a signoff grizz: only as a description sascha3: ok grizz: and with the shortness in the majors, might be nervous about NT grizz: not so nervous about !s, but plenty edgy about !h grizz: so S can pull to 4!c, to express his concern wyoming33: but surely should - hand is balanced - and P supposed to have majors stopped grizz: true, the S hand is balanced grizz: and the N hand is too, but the absence of majors in both hands is a huge problem wyoming33: that happens:( grizz: we have max 5!s and 6!hs, grizz: so ops have minimum 8!s and 7!h grizz: and we are certain to get a major lead on this auction grizz: but S has other problems certagen: taking p out of NT in a minor level 4 is not slam going? ty sascha3: yes - would it have been better for north to bid 2!C over 1!D grizz: the QJT9s in the hand are worth more in NT than in a suit grizz: and a kib notes that 4!c is slam invitational grizz: and would normally have more shape than the S hand has grizz: so S may be uncertain about the majors, but i think most good players would let pard play 3NT sascha3: would have passed it grizz: but there is another possible auction here grizz: 1!d-2!c-? grizz: then 1!d-2!c-3!c-? grizz: now N knows that S is at least 4-4 in the minors grizz: so has max 5 cards in the majors grizz: they might be good ones, suitable for 3NT grizz: but N has trepidation about the majors in NT, and N has prime values instead of quacks grizz: and 16 hcp grizz: not quite enough to get excited about slam grizz: but probably enough for 5!c grizz: so 1!d-2!c-3!c-5!c grizz: without cuebidding the !Ha en passant, the hand is not quite good enough to go sniffing for slam grizz: but it turns out that it's a magic !c hand, making 6 sascha3: no and u would have a !H lead also grizz: right, and that holds it grizz: ok, i need a break - any other questions? Dianne0516: can't n cue hearts after the 3 !c bid? grizz: great question analisals: great lesson thanks so much grizz: and Marty Bergen will be talking a lot about that in his new slam book cdt: thanks Pete the time goes by so fast :) grizz: there are hands where it seems as if no harm can be done by cuebidding a control on the way to game grizz: when it fact great harm might be done grizz: if pard thinks you are stronger than you actually are grizz: for instance, if pard needs a magic hand for slam, don't hope for it - just play in game sascha3: if North had bid 3!H there after 3!C i would take it as invitation to NT if i had heart stopper - otherwise i bid club again cc1313: thx pete bbo_iac: thanks Pete and thanks all for coming grizz: thanks for coming and I'll see you next week. sascha3: :) byeeeeeeeeee grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. Dianne0516: Thanks Grizz analisals: thanks for your time and help Pete really appreciate your sharing your knowledge jaf1935: thx for ur time :) grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. sascha3: wonder if you see my question grizz: Thanks for your interest and participation, and I hope to see you next week. lenia1: thx grizz:) sascha3: perhaps later on we can chat about it ->sascha3: oh, what was that? ->sascha3: ok, seeya !H certagen: tyvm grizz: Grizz out.