grizz->Lobby: !s!h Grizz on Defense will start in 2 minutes in the BIL. All members are invited to attend. Today's topic is random hands !d!c ->barbhow: hiya! ->bluehi: hiya! ->camilleln: hiya! ->CindyRN: hiya! ->dae: hiya! ->dee_dee_20: hiya! ->Dianne0516: hiya! CindyRN: geez, another class already!! no wonder you are exhausted on saturdays!! sascha3: hi:) camilleln: hiya back!!! sascha3: hi dae: hi Dianne0516: Hi Grizz :) ->dotfl: hiya! barbhow: hi !h ->sascha3: hiya! dee_dee_20: hiya:) ochef: hi ->CindyRN: y, saturdays are a grind! grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on bidding, defense and declarer play. CindyRN: i can see.....I am in slow mo today...got home from a week in vegas yesterday grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. I am available for tournaments as well. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: Archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page. grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: I encourage participation by all kibs. grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat... grizz: ...since I can't always respond to private chat. grizz: There is a calendar now available on Google for all my scheduled teaching and play dates. grizz: Navigate to Google.com, go to upper left and click "more" grizz: Click "calendar" grizz: Type "grizzbridge" in the search string box, and click grizz: Click on the link and the calendar will open in a new window. grizz: As events get added, deleted or rescheduled, the changes will be shown on the calendar. grizz: This week we are going to continue looking at example hands and auctions, consider defensive plans and choose leads. grizz: These example hands are not predealt, they are random. grizz: So I have not analyzed them, rather we are all looking at them for the first time. grizz: The bidding will be done by the bots, though I must sit in one of the seats during play to control the pace. grizz: I have no idea who the declarer will be or which seat will be on lead, so you may kibitz all 4 hands. grizz: I will try to remember to insert the board numbers in the Chat Log, so you can match up the log with the hands file in the future. grizz: If you wonder what a GIB bid means, click on it - the bots play 2/1. grizz: Here is the GIB convention card: http://online.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_system_notes.php grizz: grizz: click on the 3!d bid to see that the bots play Unusual vs. Unusual grizz: so 3!s is not !ds, it's a cuebid of my lower suit showing a limit raise or better in !cs grizz: i'm not sure how the bots play 2!h, it seems to be a relay grizz: arggh grizz: the bot ignored my lead directing double, so that's it for him on this hand ochef: I have tried to play on gib the bidding is terrible as is the play . somebody should work on that grizz: when you go to the trouble of making a Lead Directing Double, the least pard can do is PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dianne0516: I think he drinks oil with alcohol in it on weekends, especially grizz: LOL i would agree! grizz: uh oh - prepare for discards! grizz: some may be wondering why we didn't win the first !h grizz: that is only correct if it's cashout time already grizz: otherwise we establish the suit while pard still has an entry grizz: but now, before we play to the first !c trick, we must figure out all 6 of our discards grizz: assuming that pard has an entry somewhere, we must keep all 4!hs grizz: and there is no way that the !dJ will set up as a 3rd or 4th round winner grizz: so we can afford to pitch 5!ds and what else? grizz: small !s late grizz: sigh grizz: !s8 shows a !s card, so we can pitch the QH now grizz: does anybody see a better auction, line of play or defense? grizz: i do not know what the 3!h bid means - it cannot be forcing to 3NT if W does not have a !h stop joe_93402: asks for !h stopper? grizz: i suspect it is an asking bid, and the "forcing to 3NT" means that the auction is forced to AT LEAST 3NT doldridg: U2NT w. 11 pts? sascha3: would it be a western cue since south bid 2NT and has hearts and diamonds grizz: y grizz: unusual bids should be either below 12-14, or above DougC43: responding to U2NT which showed 2 lowest unbid suits? grizz: Unusual NT and Michaels both grizz: if mini, then pass grizz: if maxi, then bid on - grizz: then pard does not need to guess grizz: with a hand in the 12-14 range, just bid both suitw grizz: Do we have any final questions? ochef: when 2 suits are unbid shouldn't you tell and not ask grizz: before we move on, that is? grizz: ah - asking bids are a potential train wreck, so don't make one unless you have discussed it with pard beforehand joe_93402: if u have !h stopper y ask - just bid 3NT dee_dee_20: they have found a !c fit now E asks for a stopper grizz: problem is 2-fold after the Unusual bid - ochef: shouldn't be with 2 suits unbid grizz: both red suits are problem areas dee_dee_20: if E had !h stopper he would bid 3nt ochef: 3N says both suits stopped joe_93402: yes and he has a !d stopper grizz: y, with a !h stopper E would bid 3NT in this auction, with stoppers in !s and !d, and a source of tricks in !cs grizz: the 3!d bid does not promise a !d stopper, that is just a coincidence joe_93402: rt grizz: 3!d is a cuebid of one of the suits that S showed grizz: showing a !c fit whiz: he answered to 2nt grizz: BTW, there are many forms of Unusual vs. Unusual whiz: oh no grizz: so if you play it, make sure you play the same flavor that pard does :) grizz: Do we have any questions before we proceed? jacquiek: why wouldn grizz: let me just say that the bots handled the unusual NT bid with aplomb jacquiek: 't west just raise clubs? grizz: great question - ochef: thats a weak bid grizz: and the answer applies to SAYC and 2/1 alike grizz: when ops compete, then a cuebid is responder's strong bid regardless of what it MIGHT have been without the overcall grizz: so a !c raise would be long and weak, as ochef stated ochef: shows a limit or better grizz: right dee_dee_20: W supported !c and showed !s Stopper dee_dee_20: !d jacquiek: thank you dee_dee_20: stopper a cue bid of one of opps suit grizz: W supported !c, but did not show any stoppers at all! dee_dee_20: a cue bid of one of oops suit is stop grizz: unless the bots play some unusual form of Unusual vs. Unusual grizz: not necessarily - grizz: W may have a LR+ in !cs, with stops in neither red suit dee_dee_20: then he would bid !c dee_dee_20: IMO ochef: he would have bid 3D with 3 to the 10 and A of S grizz: if W has !SAKx-!hxxx-!dxxx-!cK9xx then still has a LR+ in !c, and must make a cuebid whiz: anyway on bbo one play like that just bots :) dee_dee_20: they are headed for 3nt whiz: no one grizz: so the cue need not promise a stopper joe_93402: If west had bid 3H instead of 3D - would show !ss and 10 + hcp rt grizz: just a !c fit and values, and interest in NT grizz: generally that is how the cue of the implied major is used, yes dee_dee_20: yes dee_dee_20: I agree but he could have bid 3!h so he is going up the line lapseki: mmm grizz: hang on, i will get a website for you on Unu vs. Unu dee_dee_20: E asked if he also had !h or E would habe bid 3nt grizz: here it is: http://web2.acbl.org/documentLibrary/play/Commonly_Used_Conventions/unusual.pdf joe_93402: I heard these cue bids called invisable cue bids dee_dee_20: if you play some kind of transfer Leb it would make more sense grizz: y, that is another term for the same concept grizz: S has "bid" both !hs and !ds grizz: so the bid of either of those suits is a cue, and the bids have different meanings grizz: if the auction goes 1!h-2NT-? then 3!c shows LR+ in !hs, and 3!d shows LR+ in !s Daffodil: oops..I'm out of practice Daffodil: sorry grizz: and the assumption underlying the convention is that the 2 suits "bid" by the unusual bidder belong to the ops bluw: some play that the higher cue shows game value and 5+card in higher suit grizz: so the cuebid shows support for either of the two unbid suits, one being pard's opening suit, and the other higher suit grizz: y, cue of the higher invisible suit should be the unbid major grizz: Do we have any questions before we proceed? dee_dee_20: nty:) jacquiek: great explanation grizz...ty sascha3: so if u dont have hearts and support for partner but have spades u bid the higher grizz: right sascha3: how many spades do u have 5? grizz: and with GF values and stoppers in both invisible suits, bid NT grizz: should be 5+ grizz: or a really good 4 sascha3: okthx grizz: interesting point here grizz: if E has 7!ds, why didn't he start there? dee_dee_20: he has 4!h sascha3: 4 hearts grizz: y! jacquiek: because he doesn't have 2 of top 3 or 3 of top 5 grizz: and you can make that assumption at the table without seeing that hand jacquiek: ah grizz: there are a few of us dinosaurs who still play disciplined preempts with 2/3 or 3/5, but the modern style is "anything goes' sascha3: :) jacquiek: lol...guess i grizz: which jams the auction for ops, but makes constructive bidding impossible for our side jacquiek: i'm a dino! grizz: so pick your poison! grizz: 3!s here is an UnLawful bid, in the sense that pard may have only 4, and then our "safe" level would be only 2!s grizz: but pard may have more, and the unfriendly preempt by a passed hand is inconvenient grizz: but that happens all the time at the table grizz: if we don't get a !s support bid in here, it will be too late if !ss is our spot grizz: side issue here - grizz: W can make the same inference that we did about the !h suit! grizz: and so W may think for a moment about a 5!h save grizz: 4!h grizz: which actually works out pretty well grizz: but the bot didn't come up with it, so we play 3!s grizz: another principle of defensive signals here - grizz: when you lead a card that you expect pard to ruff, \ grizz: the size of that card shows where your entry is for another ruff grizz: disregarding the trump suit, there are only 2 suits left grizz: so a low card shows the lower suit, !ds, grizz: and a high card would show !hs loubel: should east x 1!S? grizz: no, a 1-4-7-1 hand is a single-suiter grizz: one other comment on signals grizz: for Tricks 2-13, lead of a low spot card shows interest in that suit grizz: and overrules any prior signals grizz: so 4th best, or 3/5th or whatever you use applies only to Trick 1 grizz: after that, low shows interest and high spot card denies interest grizz: also, when discarding it gives declarer the least information if you discard what you are known to have grizz: interestingly enough, EW did not find their !h fit - makes 5!h, i think grizz: losing only 1!s and 1!h jacquiek: with 15 pts why didn't west bid? Ishudav: Shd W not overcall 1!C with 1NT? jacquiek: or double grizz: good question grizz: X is offshape, but W has enough stuff for a 1NT overcall grizz: let's see what happens if W does that jacquiek: right...but 1nt? grizz: 15-18, balanced shape and !c stopper - perfect grizz: it's ok to bid NT with one suit unstopped grizz: as long as it's not the one that ops already bid grizz: X is not terrible, though offshape grizz: if pard jumps in !ds, that's not a huge problem grizz: but generally with length and strength in ops' suit, pass is best grizz: that is less often true after a minor opener than a major, because of the different promises about length jacquiek: however it could be and was a convenient minor... grizz: but the principle is that if ops don't have a fit, then we don't either grizz: y jacquiek: ok grizz: and therefore the 1NT bid is the best available grizz: and has a chilling effect on N's bid here jacquiek: yep grizz: question - do you and your favorite pard have an agreement about what X would mean here? grizz: possible meanings: jacquiek: not I joe_93402: penalty grizz: 1. Negative, showing !s and 8+ grizz: 2. Penalty, 7+ and no clear fit grizz: 3. "Cards", suggesting penalty but not insisting on it grizz: 4. "I'm stuck pard, do something intelligent!" grizz: if you play it as Negative, it's not alertable but there is a black check box on the convention card grizz: ok, pretend you are N now grizz: options are: grizz: 1. 2!S grizz: 2. X grizz: 3. 2!c grizz: 4. Pass grizz: 5. Other joe_93402: pass dee_dee_20: pass dae: * jacquiek: maybe leave it to p to decide grizz: pard will have no info to decide with, if N passes here analisals: when you said "not me" I thot you were referring to Grizz's "do something intelligent parnter" thot you were being funny sorry dae: W will have to play it all out of HIS hand so double? grizz: i like the X as Penalty, for just that reason dae: y grizz: E rates to be broke joe_93402: X is dangerous dee_dee_20: I m curious to see if they find !h's grizz: max 1 or 2 entries, but mostly W gets endplayed every time he wins a trick grizz: but if NS have a !s fit and N doesn't bid them here, then it's lost Dianne0516: I think we should see what GIB would bid :) grizz: !!! grizz: 2!c would be my 3rd choice, after X and 2!s grizz: but any bid at all out of N prevents E from looking for a !h fit dee_dee_20: my 2nd choice is 2!s grizz: S would be crazy to bid !s or more !cs here grizz: well now grizz: looks like the most inconventient place for declarer to be is in dummy grizz: just goes to show the power of shape! joe_93402: N should have passed - :) grizz: that is a mighty powerful 5 hcp in E, opposite a strong NT! grizz: i like X or 2!s grizz: 2!c is not even safe, since pard may have only 2 or 3 grizz: though the positional value of the K is very good grizz: other questions for you and your favorite partner - grizz: in this auction, is the NT system on for E? transfers and Stayman? Ishudav: y joe_93402: yes grizz: how about over the 2!c bid from N? dae: Y- lapseki: y dae: N grizz: is X=Stayman? dae: sTAYMAN STILL ON jacquiek: dbl would say stolen bid Ishudav: if playing Stolen grizz: is 2NT Lebensohl? Ishudav: y dee_dee_20: y grizz: Stolen Bid would be clear in this auction, but not so clear in some others dae: stolen bids not good? grizz: fwiw, with my best partners we play System On over X and 2!c sascha3: i have to go - byeeeeeeeeeeeeee thx for lesson was great as always:) grizz: Stoeln Bid can be ambiguous ->sascha3: :) grizz: if the auction went 1!c-1NT-2!d-X what would the X mean? jacquiek: 2h grizz: N stole 2 bids, both 2!c and 2!d grizz: would that be a !h transfer? dae: n bluw->Club: yes grizz: or did e really want to bid Stayman and ask about both majors? dae: both are confusing grizz: y! panim: with 7 diamonds would you not bid 3d over NT by partner? jacquiek: ok....so if you play systems on after 2!C overcall....how do you bid stayman? grizz: "Stolen Bid" sounds so clear and easy when you are going over a CC, but in practice it can get very confusing bluw: you need a partner agreement on stolen bid like anything else :) grizz: :) grizz: if you play Lebensohl, then the continuations by E would be: grizz: 2!d/!h/!s are natural and nonforcing grizz: 3!d/!h/!s are natural and forcing grizz: 3!c is Stayman with OR without a stop in !c grizz: and 2NT is a relay to 3!c for pass or correction Ishudav: and X is? jacquiek: kapish! grizz: no generally recognized meaning for that bid in Leb dee_dee_20: hi Ira Ishudav: ok grizz: probably for penalty IraCT: Hi Anne :) Ishudav: can be pens or takeout, depending on agreement? joe_93402: I only play stolen bid over 2C when it is a conventional bid - like showing a long suit - else Leb grizz: y, this is one of those gray areas where partnership agreement is essential before trotting out the bid at the table Ishudav: :) dee_dee_20: leb is best here dee_dee_20: I still think N could bid 2!s grizz: y, i like 2!s by N grizz: Do we have any final questions grizz: ? dae: but that should promise 10 points?? EternalUke: Or at least some quick tricks grizz: should, y grizz: or some defensive values dae: and NO QT Dianne0516: Some play in this sequence, whatever north bids is to play Dianne0516: because there can't be a lot of points out dae: after ant interference nothing is forcing, right? grizz: y, point is there is no "Standard" treatment for this auction past the first 3 bids grizz: y, i would agree that 2!s is nonforcing grizz: would be NF if bid by N, that is grizz: very risky too, but NF nonetheless dee_dee_20: it does promise 6!s no? grizz: might be only 5 grizz: unless you play Negative Free Bids, then would look like a weak 2 opener dee_dee_20: I am still curious to what the gibs would have bid grizz: OK then, our time is up now, thanks for coming and I'll see you next week. Dianne0516: Thanks Grizz :) grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. analisals: thanks Pete dee_dee_20: thxs:) bbo_iac: thanks very much Pete :) and thanks all for coming grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. ydannac: Thanks my dear Grizz, wonder lesson !H!H lenia1: thx pete:) grizz: Thanks to Fred and all the wonderful people at BBO who make this all possible. Wanda21: thanks Grizz:) grizz: Thanks all for coming, and I hope see you next week. Ishudav: Many Thanks, Pete. :) grizz: Happy bridging! Grizz out. lapseki: ty grizz :) IraCT: Thanks Pete