Chat log of Bridge Base Online session for grizz starting at: Sat Jul 21 14:27:57 2007 grizz: hi all ydannac: Rushed home from vacation just for you lesson, you are important to me,SEE BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table is now open in the BIL. Topic today " More NT Defense: Moving beyond Trick 1" All members are invited to attend this very informative lesson!H!H BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table is now open in the BIL. Topic today " More NT Defense: Moving beyond Trick 1" All members are invited to attend this very informative lesson!H!H ->ydannac: cool! :) nome: greetings from dry southern California grizz: Hi all, while we are waiting are there any questions from past sessions? grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense. grizz: Here we go with the usual stuff. grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me. grizz: My old email at grizz.den@gmail.com still works, but I have a new one too, Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: The new website is not up yet, and won't be for a while. The site is still under development. grizz: If you have any ideas about what you would like to see on the site, please let me know. grizz: I plan to use it as an archive for lesson chat logs and hand records, but there must be other things you folks would like to see there too. grizz: Please email me with any ideas at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: I cannot respond to private chat during a lesson. grizz: Last week we talked about notrump defense, and how opening leader can start getting information on the hand from 3rd hand play to Trick 1. grizz: We will do more of that today, and move on deeper into the hand. grizz: When you see how and why the rules work, they will make more sense as we continue to work on them. grizz: The rules for opening leads have been repeated at several previous sessions, so I won't go back over them now. grizz: If you need more information in that regard, just email me and ask. grizz: We talked previously about 3rd hand play at Trick 1. grizz: Here are the rules for 3rd hand play to Trick 1: grizz: 1. Win the trick, unless there is a good reason not to, such as finessing an honor in dummy. grizz: 2. Give Attitude on partner's lead - tell him whether to continue the suit or switch. grizz: We have some improvements on that basic scheme now. grizz: Suppose that partner leads a low spot card at Trick 1. Assume it to be 4th best, and play accordingly. grizz: Normally 3rd hand plays high to protect partner. grizz: Though 3rd hand will finesse an honor in dummy if his second highest card is a 9 or higher. We looked at those cases a long time ago. grizz: But what if dummy plays the A or K? grizz: If dummy plays the K and you have the A, take it. grizz: If dummy plays the A or K and you have the K or Q, signal that you like the suit with a high spot card. grizz: Here is the improvement: grizz: If dummy wins the trick with a card lower than the K, give Count. grizz: In such a case it is clear that you would win the trick if possible, so failure to cover denies an honor. grizz: You don't have to signal that twice. grizz: Instead we give another piece of valuable information, your count in the suit. So partner can start counting out honors and distribution around the table. grizz: High-low is an even number, low-high is odd, and partner will have to work out what the actual holding is. grizz: Signals should be made with the loudest card you can afford to play, to make the signal as clear as possible to partner. grizz: If you signal a low card, play the lowest from a sequence. So play the 2 from 8432, for instance. grizz: Likewise, if you are signalling high, play the highest card you can afford to play. So play the 9 from K987, for instance. grizz: Let's first look at an honor signal situation. grizz: Sidebar grizz: It is sometime said that if you can't beat dummy, give Count. grizz: So in this case you would signal with the 6, your lowest, showing 3. Bebea10601: what is a side bar? grizz: Temporary digression grizz: That's what they call it in court when they take a time out, and go confer with the judge about where everybody is going for lunch job1: ok malestrom2: why not 9 to encourage stefsched: thought you said you give count if dummy wins with lower than the K job1: he di 2 showing 3 stefsched: so here you would show attitude? job1: or 5 Condi: He hee ->Condi: :) PedroG: :9 PedroG: :) grizz: But if you give count, partner will not know whether to continue the suit if he gets in. grizz: East plays the 9 to signal an honor. grizz: The signal implies the Q, because if South had the Qxx he would let the lead run to the closed hand. grizz: So when West is in with a !D, he knows that it's safe to continue !ss, because partner's Q will knock out declarer's king. grizz: Another sidebar: grizz: East signals a solid !C sequence with the loudest card he can afford, and thereby denies the Q. buckp: How does W know if pard is giving count or attitude? grizz: when dummy wins with an A or K, East gives attitutde grizz: Knowing that it's safe to return a !S, West does so. stefsched: must follow suit to show count, right? grizz: When dummy wins with an A or K, East gives attitude grizz: We will cover the opposite position in a few minutes grizz: West must hope that East does not have just Qx, because he will not have a 3rd !s to return. stefsched: exactly...lol grizz: Alas, there is always some luck involved even with good signals. grizz: West signals a second entry in !hs by playing his highest !s. grizz: Well, you get the idea here. grizz: The key play was continuing the !ss, after a good signal from East. grizz: OK, that was a signal situation, with dummy winning an A or K, and East having a K or Q. grizz: Are there any questions? j2l->Club: please tell me more about the "second entry in !h" signal grizz: West had 3!ss at the time grizz: And could have played any of them grizz: The highest !s card indicated an entry in his highest side suit grizz: to get back in and cash his winners j2l: ty - hadn't heard of that before Condi: too tired at midnight - sorry - see yoyu later grizz: Likewise a low card would show the lowest side suit ->Condi: :) grizz: When you have a choice of cards to play, always try to send a message grizz: Especially early in the hand, every card should mean something. grizz: Now for a count situation. grizz: On the lead of the !S5, dummy wins with a card smaller than the K. grizz: So 3rd hand signals count with the 2 showing 1, 3 or 5. grizz: South must have at least 2 for his NT opener, so East must have 1 or 3. grizz: West must assume that East has 3, and that the small @s will knock out the A in the closed hand. grizz: small !s, that is grizz: East doesn't really need to unblock the 9, but it's a good habit to develop. grizz: No need to play this one out grizz: The key play was Count, when dummy won with a card smaller than a K grizz: OK, that was a Count situation, which also provided information to let West answer the most important question - continue or switch? grizz: Are there any questions? PedroG: n grizz: Does everybody see why it makes a difference whether dummy wins big or little? stefsched: y mojila: y job1: y Campus61: y grizz: Makes perfect sense grizz: If East has an honor, he will play it grizz: Unless finessing an honor in dummy grizz: And partner can usually work that out stefsched: so when would someone give a signal for partner to lead the next highest/lowest side suit? grizz: East will only do that if he has a second-highest card at least as big as a 9 grizz: In a trump contract for instance, when partner wins the trick and dummy is now void grizz: In a NT contract when it doesn't matter what card partner plays, but it is loudly high or low JinxII: how would it play with Nth as declarer? grizz: Such as where partner knows that declarer will win the trick - the size of his choice of three remaining cards sends a message grizz: sry Jinx, can you rephrase the question? JinxII: i'd prob. bid 1!d ,p , 2nt show 10-12 , then sth signs off in 3NT grizz: OK, let's go deeper into the hand now. Anything that could possibly happen at Trick 1 has been pretty discussed to death! PedroG: probably the lead would be diff grizz: oh, I see. job1: j c Old York: Acol sequence; 1H - 2NT - 3NT. !C lead? grizz: Sure, different auction, different lead grizz: Sure grizz: Long suit, solid sequence, and outside entry grizz: BTW, the rules of defense do not vary much from one system to another grizz: Doesn't matter much whether you play SAYC, Precision, ACOL or WJ2005 grizz: Some difference in leads, but largely the same job1: whqat is wj3005 PedroG: it's funny that W would give count on a E J!C lead also grizz: Polish Club job1: ok thks grizz: Solid defense and signals work with any bidding system grizz: If North were playing 3NT on lead of the !CJ grizz: If dummy plays low, West plays highest grizz: If dummy plays high, West gives count grizz: Same card either way grizz: And East knows there is no future in the !C suit grizz: Back to the same threshhold question - continue or switch? PedroG: ty p grizz: OK, let's go deeper into the hand now. Anything that could possibly happen at Trick 1 has been pretty discussed to death! grizz: Here are the rules for leads from Trick 2 through Trick 12: grizz: 1. A low spot card on partner's lead shows an honor, and an interest in developing tricks in that suit. grizz: 2. A high spot card shows no interest. grizz: 3. Give Count on declarer's lead, to help partner figure out suit distribution around the table. grizz: Let me elaborate a little grizz: With !SKJ762, you would lead the 6 at T1, so partner could use the Rule of 11 and figure out the suit grizz: But grizz: If the original lead was some other suit, and you get in to lead it, start with the 2 grizz: Because after T!, it is more important to tell partner whether you have more interest in this new suit grizz: And a low spot card shows interest grizz: The 6 would be ambiguous grizz: So bluehi: hi grizz: There is one set of rules, very complicated ones for T1 grizz: And a very much simpler one for T@-12 grizz: T2-12 bluehi: hope i didnt miss much grizz: Low shows interest, high denies on T2-12 Campus61: udca grizz: All clear, and easy to understand, right? Caitlin: what about with honors to lead at trick two KQJx vs KQxx PedroG: y ->Campus61: Not now, would only confuse many mick357: u r playing udca then? grizz: no, not for purposes of this class, was I unclear about that> grizz: We will discuss standard signals vs. udca, but much later isabable: hi which is the best ty grizz: The what? and why? and when? and what should I expect? are all more important than the how? PedroG: Pete are these T2-T12 common for NT and trump? grizz: Yes PedroG: tu grizz: The opening lead was West's best guess about how to defend the hand, but that plan was subject to revision once dummy hit the table and a couple tricks were played. grizz: There comes a point in defense of a NT hand where we need to decide whether to continue with Plan A, or come up with a better plan. grizz: That is what the rules for T2-T12 are for. grizz: A low spot card shows interest in that new suit, regardless of the opening lead or the bidding. grizz: Likewise a high spot card denies interest in having that suit returned. grizz: He may still have an honor, but some other suit is more important at the time. grizz: Look at Hand 3. grizz: What should we lead here? nome: 10!H bluehi: top of Seq grizz: Either major could be dangerous, but one of them must be right. !H is safer to lead from. bluehi: k rojune: good luck, lol:) grizz: Interesting card here bluehi: looking at wrong hand sorry grizz: When leading from a sequence, if the first lead is the top and the second is the bottom, partner has a lot of information Old York: please slow down :) grizz: Decision time now grizz: 4 rounds of !Hs to start grizz: What should East return now? nome: 9!S PedroG: 2!d grizz: exactly Old York: @ trick 3 West played !H2 Old York: could !H9 be suit pref? grizz: low !d will be wrong unless partner has an honor PedroG: i see grizz: The !S9 indicates no interest in !S, West must switch if he gets in. grizz: A !C can't be right, South must have a tenace or maybe all of them. East must have been asking for a !D lead. grizz: That's all for today folks, are there any questions? nyleh: thanks for a most informative lesson nome: great lesson as usual ty PedroG: ty Pete grizz: So let's climb back up to 5000 feet for an overview beryl8: tu! Caitlin: can you send me lessons with LEADS 1 LEADS 2 Defense 1 Defense 2 etc?? grizz: The main question that West needs to answer at Trick 1 is... grizz: Continue or switch? bluehi: sorry forgot to set alarm do you have the chat and the boards ->bluehi: email me :) bluehi: k grizz: And from 3rd hand play to Trick, an alert West can almost always figure that out grizz: Next week we still have a format change grizz: Instead of lecture style, we will have volunteers and I will supervise bidding and play jacquiek->Club: i volunteer bluehi: great grizz: And you can take turns bidding and defending NT hands using the principles that we have talked about the last 2+ months firsty: me too jacquiek: sounds great grizz: Are you guys up for that? PedroG: y firsty: yyyy bluehi: y jacquiek: absolutly grizz: great! dotfl: ok grizz: Remember, the rules are there for guidance, but they are no substitute for critical thinking and carefully applied bridge logic. nome: YES BUT THE OLDEST STUDENTS GETS THE FIRST CHOICE TO SIT AND PLAY:):) bluehi: lol grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: I am also available for private, pair and small group lessons, you can email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com for more information. Old York: We get to pick the comfy chair? grizz: lol grizz: Thanks for your interest and participation, and I hope to see you next week. grizz: Thanks also to Maureen, Fred and the wonderful people at BBO who make this all possible. jacquiek: you're the best! thanks! bluehi: for sure on that PedroG: TY Pete grizz: I will stick around a while for questions. ->PedroG: :) BILAssist: Thanks for the lesson, Grizz we appreciate your time and expertise grizz: My pleasure, I enjoy this jacquiek: will you be in 2/1 tomorrow? grizz: And you are a great crowd, thanks to all for helping to make this a success Campus61: double this great help> BILAssist->Club: !D!DDon't forget to register to play in the tournamnet that follows this lesson starts in about 28 mins grizz: I was told that C2/1 is off for the summer, so I'm enjoying the time off :) jacquiek: oh...I'm disappointed. Old York: In stone age times, did 3rd hand play K from KQxx (third hand highest?) jacquiek: how is your website coming along? grizz: I am receiving some much needed help from PedroG, and hope to have something up shortly guyb2: How obtain hand records? grizz: email me and ask Campus61: these teaching hands? PedroG: It will be up soon :) grizz: in the stone age, it was still correct to win as cheaply as possible, a holdover from the days of auction bridge and whist before that jacquiek: thanks for pitching in Pedro!!! I can't wait! grizz: Thx Pedro, you da man! Old York: mny thx ->Campus61: y, these are not random firsty: tu grizz !H PedroG: ty grizz: thx all, gtg now jacquiek: grizz...could you tell us about how your private/group lessons work and the fees? BILAssist: To save the hands. Click on the gear button at the bottom of the chat window to bring up your profile then make sure that is a check mark in save all hands when kibbinng. ... BILAssist: Then..... grizz: sure, email me for more info please jacquiek: I'm sure I'm not the only person interested. grizz: The more, the merrier :) BILAssist: click on the tab for Chat and make sure that there is a check mark saving the chat while kibbing. Then, to retrieve.... BILAssist: Go to your desk top and click on My computer then to C drive. Then you will find a folder named BBO (gets installed when you install BBO) Then... BILAssist: Look through the BBO folder to find the chat and hands that you want to see. You can open then and print them or copy and paste them to a word document or notepad for future ... BILAssist: reference. grizz: FWIW, I save the chat log for each session as a different file, and save it for review and sending to players who missed the session(s) grizz: OK, thx all, bye now Old York: use windows search function for Old York_chat, (substitute Old York for your username) jacquiek: b jacquiek: bye:) ->jacquiek: :) jacquiek: you are the best...I mean that :) ->jacquiek: hardly, but i sincerely appreciate the thought !H