grizz: Hi all, while we are waiting are there any questions from past sessions? grizz: OK, we will start putting everything together today jacquiek: yippee! grizz: :) jaf1935: if possible a small list of themes of the last session pls? jacquiek: you have quite a following :)\ grizz: Don't know about you guys, but i'm a little bored with Trick 1 bluehi: yes question grizz: fire away grizz: last session was random hands, played by volunteers, so no theme jaf1935: thx bebea10601: Are you in midst of game right now? I am new to this BIL? bluehi: rule of 9 and 10 promise 0 or 2 higher cards can you give some example as it seem different than how some of us thought grizz: prior to that we discussed all aspects of leads and plays to Trick 1 rwin: one that puzzles ->bebea10601: lesson is about to start, welcome :) grizz: ok bluehi: or are there 2 choises how to play bebea10601: thanks, private questions or open? grizz: if you lead the T, it guarantees the 9 and 8 or 7 bebea10601: Is this standard American play? rwin: if opp preemp over my bid and p dbls is that ta=/o or pen.?? mick357: they are ranked 6 & 7 in wgm:) ->bebea10601: yes, questions in the open pls bluehi: we thought 10 =have j 9=have 10 grizz: and may also have 2 higher cards, including the J grizz: AJT9x grizz: KJT9(x) grizz: etc grizz: you would not lead the T from AKTxx bluehi: where does the 0 or 2 higher card ?? bluehi: the 0 grizz: T98xx grizz: for example bluehi: k grizz: 9 is the same, only if there are 2 higher cards, one of them is the T bluehi: ah top of seq 0 grizz: y bluehi: k grizz: unsupported T is not a good lead, unless in partner's bid suit bluehi: k grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense. grizz: Here we go with the usual stuff. grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me. grizz: My old email at grizz.den@gmail.com still works, but I have a new one too, Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: The new website is almost up, but not ready for prime time . The site is still under development. grizz: If you have any ideas about what you would like to see on the site, please let me know. grizz: I plan to use it as an archive for lesson chat logs and hand records, but there must be other things you folks would like to see there too. grizz: Please email me with any ideas at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: I cannot respond to private chat during a lesson. grizz: We are going to change format again today, last week was a bit too chaotic even for me. :) PedroG: :) grizz: Instead of continuing with classroon-style lectures we will be playing actual hands and putting into practice all the concepts that we have been talking about. bluehi: lol grizz: The hands will all be NT hands or at least NT auctions, and I will continue to concentrate on defense. grizz: So think about the auction, opening lead, 3rd hand play, location of honors and hand counts around the table. grizz: I will sit in all 4 seats but ask for advice from all the kibs on bids, plays, plans, signals and so forth. grizz: anybody think we should bid with the S hand? wyoming33: n jacquiek: no bebea10601: no grizz: if so, what? loubel: no lenia1: hei v catboo123: I'd go 1 !D grizz: very good rwin: n losesome: me too - if PedroG: n spum1: n bebea10601: n ydannac: n Hogie: bid !d 4 lead grizz: 1!D is the only possible bid except pass grizz: right ydannac: y grizz: because? bluehi: lead PedroG: up-the-line losesome: not a good T/O jacquiek: no 4card major and no nt bid grizz: right also helenjon: the only time able to get into the acution helenjon: auction grizz: indeed jenna22: do we subtract a point for no aces? grizz: and it's good to get in early, and get out early rwin: many losers grizz: no, i would not subtract anything here :) jenna22: k spum1: p has already passed grizz: when RHO opens a minor, LHO frequently winds up declaring grizz: since SAYC and most other systems are designed to find major fits or NT losesome: lead director - but can't take the first trick and tells opps where the second one it tho grizz: right grizz: if you are defending NT with the S hand, don't you really want a !D lead? wyoming33: most likely be on lead anyway losesome: true Hogie: so you reckon we should bid where possible if RHO opens a minor? wyoming33: Im wrong - north will prob lead grizz: if you have anything at all to say, now is the time to say it grizz: at the 1 level grizz: before the cost of mistakes goes too high wyoming33: at least not vul grizz: there are 3 reasons to make an overcall grizz: 1. win the contract, for part score or game Hogie: i guess by not repeating shows a short suit or weaker hand? grizz: 2. direct a lead, either opening lead or later in the play grizz: 3. interfere with ops' auction grizz: of those 3, #3 is least important most of the time jacquiek: so a 1!D overcall wouldn't promise 5? grizz: #1 is most important most of the time spum1: #1 not likely grizz: usually an overcalled suit has 5, but not always grizz: if only 4, should be a good sequence like this one wyoming33: maybe reason 2 - certainly not the others - not going to interfer with ops grizz: right marcat36: ok grizz: so what should E do grizz: ? malestrom2: 1nt fish2007x: 1NT jenna22: 1nt grizz: 2!c on that mangy suit doesn't look good, does it? spum1: 1nt bebea10601: 1nt jaf1935: no as no cover for !d grizz: 1NT should show 2 or 3!HS, but alas 'tis an imperfect world wyoming33: like to have 2 in Ps suit grizz: Axx is fine as a !d stop Hogie: rebid 2!C showing length and low pts? grizz: that would be my 2nd choice jaf1935: true grizz: lol maybe 1st choice some days grizz: let's try it both ways jaf1935: 1 !h grizz: now what? Hogie: rebid 2!S stopper asking? fish2007x: 2!d cue bid bluehi: jhlead grizz: 2!h is an underbid jaf1935: true bluehi: sorry grizz: !d suit is not stopped grizz: !s suit is awful Hogie: lol, lot later here than there sorry! grizz: 3!h is invitational, not GF grizz: so W has a huge problem spum1: 2nt grizz: with no !d stop? defensible, but risky jaf1935: true 2 nt Hogie: with that !h suit and S bidding !d , only 4!h seems sensible over opening hand opposite? grizz: W could ask whether pd has a !d stop, anybody know how? jacquiek: i would rebid hearts helenjon: 3!d grizz: pd might be void spum1: 2d wyoming33: 3!D jenna22: bid Ds jaf1935: true 3 !d jacquiek: helper suit grizz: 2!D, correct grizz: this is Western Cue, asking for but not guaranteeing a !d stopper, looking for NT grizz: any reason not to bid game here? spum1: 3nt 2 !d stoppers grizz: that T!D looks a lot better now Hogie: is the 2NT showing min points? and stopper in !d grizz: right bluehi: how do we know that west cu is it always after a minir open grizz: usually shows a flat minimum - this one is shapely, but all the hcp outside the long suit grizz: any time the ops overcall 1 suit grizz: and no fit is found between opener and responder bluehi: and u cu west grizz: right bluehi: k bluehi: tu grizz: NB - there is also an "Eastern Cue" which works opposite grizz: SHOWS a stopper, doesn't ask for one fish2007x: how do you tell them apart? grizz: so make sure you and pd are on the same page! bluehi: k grizz: ask! bloop2007: have to make agreement before? wyoming33: seems always at 3 level - but maybe thats just cause bidding got higher faster grizz: in the old days, before internet, it was not so important losesome: if E didn't have a D stopper - what would he answer? grizz: but now when your partner can be anywhere in the world, these questions matter grizz: good question grizz: with no !d stopper, E would run for cover bloop2007: 3!c? grizz: might show 2 card !h support alexiss: 2!h grizz: if he had it losesome: but grizz: or 3!c grizz: if 3!C, pd would be expected to pass without a really good hand canbid: is the western one sometimes referred to as UCB ?? spum1: 3!c losesome: I would opt for the 3C - but not sure it would be best in this case grizz: i've not heard it described that way, but perhaps grizz: any ideas about opening lead? bluehi: so the west and 4th suit are sort of enterchngeable spum1: k!d alexiss: !dK grizz: no bluehi: k grizz: 4th suit is different rajen: s jaf1935: !h j bluehi: yes but game hand do you have stopper grizz: DENIES stopper in that suit - otherwise you would bid some number of NT bluehi: k grizz: also IMPLIES extra length in first bid suit, 5+ jenna22: !D k jaf1935: nt no PedroG: DK grizz: western cue says nothing about length in first bid suit jaf1935: !d 5 or !c3 grizz: just asking for stopper in the ops suit for NT grizz: 5!d would give away a trick, don't you think? RHO announced a stopper grizz: but the ops did not bid !s jaf1935: true grizz: so i would take a shot at !s here grizz: let's assume standard signals, and no special defensive treatments jaf1935: true a good lead grizz: count signal from S grizz: hi-lo is even jaf1935: 2. low grizz: how many of you would cover with the S hand? losesome: not I mcourt: I would .. although I realise since you are asking you shouldn't :) grizz: if E had the AK, would he play A and low? jaf1935: complete the count signal Hogie: no given he indicated 6 -looks like he's trying to establish so hold up? grizz: right, complete the echo grizz: besides wgraham27: no especially when all 4 hands are visible grizz: when declarer wants to give you a trick, it is often right to refuse it til later losesome: hehe wyoming33: LOL grizz: :) grizz: aha! wyoming33: Q is still protected in case dec is pulling a funny grizz: right grizz: your palms sweat when you have the Qx in that position, but low is still correct spum1: 8!s grizz: well now, !cs don't run grizz: time to try the !hs jaf1935: !c 9 spum1: 5d grizz: ack! PedroG: 9C u don't need it fish2007x: -1 losesome: E has a problem now jaf1935: true grizz: yup grizz: no way now spum1: claim jaf1935->Club: nice thx grizz: it turns out on this hand that any lead but a H is good grizz: and even a !h is not terrible grizz: still losesome->Club: unbid suit is best then? grizz: if there is an unbid suit, and you have length, that's a good place to hunt for tricks jaf1935: true grizz: sequence leads are good vs nt grizz: so !DK would be good losesome: length - meaning 4 ro more? grizz: especially if you expect the stopper to be on your left grizz: KQJx, QJTx, T98x, etx grizz: remember our basic rules of NT defense? establish your length winners while you still have entries to cash them later jaf1935: nice hint grizz: with the only guaranteed entry here in !ds, it makes sense to establish tricks in other suits grizz: so the !s lead stands out jaf1935: true grizz: the !CQ rates to be a winner, but NOT if you lead the suit grizz: wait for the C lead to come around to S grizz: ok, any other questions? jaf1935: n spum1: n jaf1935: p grizz: should E open this? PedroG: 2h jaf1935: no grizz: if so why, and if not why not? rajen: 2h grizz: y, i like it bluehi: 2h alexiss: yes...nice J109 and a single jaf1935: as les than 3 od upper 5 honours helenjon: 2!h get in the auction early wyoming33: its a nice suit - even vul grizz: being a fan of disciplined weak 2s, get in early and do maximum damage losesome: I think I might - because I really can't play any other suit grizz: ops rate to have !s grizz: and with 3 of the top 5 honors and a nice interior sequence, grizz: AND losesome: and I have 2 honors in the long suit jaf1935: if facvourable vul i would maybe grizz: most of the points in the long suit, grizz: 2!h stands out here wyoming33: y grizz: now what? spum1: 2!h Hogie: X losesome: 3 - right - I always forget to count the 10 - hehe PedroG: x wyoming33: x bluehi: x jaf1935: x maysie: X spum1: x grizz: X? 1NT? X and then 2NT? grizz: sure grizz: nearly automatic losesome: T/O grizz: right Hogie: 3!H from W? grizz: what should W do now? Hogie: defensive bluehi: p PedroG: p spum1: p helenjon: 3!h wyoming33: tempted to pass and see what north does grizz: anybody who plays the Law of Total Tricks will pass this one automatically jaf1935: no only 8 points p losesome: I would say 3H - foce the bidding grizz: ok grizz: if you are E, would you feel good playing 3!hX? jaf1935: no mcourt: no wyoming33: rather play 2!HX jaf1935: true grizz: might be a good result, but you would be very disappointed with the dummy! Hogie: no 7-8 Losers, but p has supported? grizz: E has 6 card suit marcat36: yes grizz: maybe 7 if vul and mini grizz: LOTT says you need 9 trumps to be safe at the 3 level grizz: if you are tempted to bid !s, consider this: grizz: S rates to have 4!s losesome: so pass is the answer grizz: and grizz: you have 1 probable dummy entry to take a finesse marcat36: ok grizz: anybody feel good about playing 2!s in that case? helenjon: you convinced me, E should pass losesome: n wyoming33: n jaf1935: n grizz: :) iamokru: why rate South with 4 spades. He promises at least 3 of the other unbid suits, right? grizz: now what? PedroG: 2nt PedroG: :) wyoming33: 2NT Hogie: I'd be prepared to go off 2 if they can make a vul game 620? grizz: when Xing a major, will have 4OM most of the time jaf1935: 2nt wyoming33: should never X a major with 4 in the other major iamokru: ok ty losesome: 2NT sounds right to me also jamiehm: 3 clubs alexiss: 3!h...tell me more...i have a bit bluehi: 3cl grizz: wyoming? X of major should nearly always have 4OM wyoming33: without 4 Hogie: Thank you very much, good night from ireland grizz: OR a huge hand and self sustaining suit, or bid NT hand PedroG: lebensohl can be used here wyoming33: true grizz: in any casem X is forcing losesome: right grizz: 2NT or 3!H? grizz: or 4!C? grizz: or 3!C grizz: ? wyoming33: 3!C jaf1935: 2nt losesome: not 4C I would think grizz: if 2NT, what does it mean? mcourt: 3!c jagt: 3NT PedroG: I like the leb solution here losesome: would show a stronger hand fish2007x: 2nt = balance hand, 6-10 pts grizz: not a bad solution bluehi: leb then alexiss: is Qxx stop enough against a 6carder? jenna22: 3!Cs i think...let P bid the nt wyoming33: and !H stopper jaf1935: exactly wyoming33: and those !H are behind you grizz: IF you have agreed with pd to play Lebensohl over X of weak 2, THEN 2NT is a transfer to !c grizz: if you do not have that agreement, then 2NT is 6-9 or so with a !h stopper grizz: so let us assume no agreement jaf1935: nice bid grizz: this is excellent tactics grizz: puts the weak 2 bidder on lead, where he cannot attack his suit grizz: if it plays from the S, there is immediate !h attack grizz: :) wyoming33: r jaf1935: true grizz: W never supported the suit, so E assumes 1 or 2 only losesome: and he has no entries other than his suit jamiehm: if you are playing leb then what do you do grizz: and here our Coded 9 and T help out PedroG: 2H-x-p-2NT-p-3C-p-3NT grizz: right jamiehm: tks losesome: well - MAYBE the J of D jaf1935: !h k grizz: now what? grizz: lots of points, but tought hand grizz: no long suit fish2007x: clubs mcourt: you must keep West off lead jaf1935: !d a grizz: the !hs are the Sword of Damocles losesome: the clubs? grizz: right wyoming33: 6 sure winners - mcourt: now finesse grizz: anybody cover with the W cards? PedroG: n grizz: Crash! helenjon: only if E puts up the Q wyoming33: cant lest W in grizz: now what, if you are E? wyoming33: !S losesome: spade mcourt: how can you know to lead !s? wyoming33: comes back with !H and down grizz: looks reasonable jaf1935: !h a grizz: don't want to help declarer set up the !hs wyoming33: ?? fish2007x: spades, try to give the lead to W, grizz: !h lead will destroy communication with W, in case W gets in jaf1935: true grizz: so by a process of elimination, !s it is! jaf1935: an entry grizz: bingo! wyoming33: west takesthis is way down grizz: E must remember to overtake grizz: let me back up grizz: got too carried away losesome: should W have taken his A of S first before leading the H? wyoming33: is there anyway can duck 1st !H grizz: W must do something else first losesome: there we go grizz: this trick may go away if he doesn't cash it right now wyoming33: y losesome: right :) grizz: NOW the coup de grace losesome: down - down - down grizz: :) losesome->Club: big owie grizz: where would NS play it without the 2!h bid? fish2007x: when do u use coded 9/10 and when to use 4th best ? wyoming33: cant duck the 1st !H grizz: C9T when you have the correct cards, as we do here jamiehm->Club: 2nt losesome: I don't know "coded 9's and 10's" - I fear bluehi: read coded is on 1st trick only? mcourt: please remind me of coded 9/10? grizz: JT or 9 will all force an honor grizz: right grizz: later in the play, defender leads change wyoming33: is dont play coded then J as top of inner sequence grizz: new suit, small card shows interest, bid spot card denies grizz: right malestrom2->Club: why not duck the 1st heart grizz: back to the rules for after Trick 1 grizz: small spot card shows interest in the new suit, and OVERRULES both the auction and opening lead grizz: good question about ducking grizz: because that is the other point of this hand grizz: now what? maysie: no jaf1935: n grizz: W has no !h to return wyoming33: it will work grizz: and E has no entry except maybe the !dJ jaf1935: !c grizz: completing the echo grizz: !ds don't break losesome: now for the bad news - didn't split grizz: sigh grizz: don't you just hate this decision? grizz: W would split honors, most likely losesome: now if he finesses - still trouble - so he had better not jaf1935: !c t were better than !c 2 grizz: W just delay the inevitable by duckibng grizz: and W is endplayed jaf1935: true grizz: or losesome: yep - so ducking the first H was not a help wyoming33: shd take !C earlier and return !C mcourt: what about playing the 8? grizz: or losesome: oops - I mean it WAS a help grizz: well now grizz: W took himself OFF the endplay mcourt: or lead back the club ... mcourt: where can I check rule for coded 9/10 please? losesome->Club: bridgeguys.com? grizz: y, or email me for previous lessons bluehi->Club: bridgeguys look for rule of10 abd 9 wyoming33: not everyone plays it exactly the same way jaf1935: Glossary? grizz: also known as 'Jack Denies' jaf1935: thx grizz: interesting point here wyoming33: got mine from www.bridgeclues.com (Mike Lawrence web site) mei ann: is CT/9 only used in NT? grizz: after 1!H-2!c, does 2!s show a big hand, with strength for reverse? bluehi: k jamiehm: yes should be 2 hts grizz: most players use it only vs NT, but some vs suits too mei ann: ty grizz: OR does 2!s just bid out shape after 2/1 call? grizz: in most parts of the country, 2!s would not show extras losesome: isn't S too strong to say 2H to open? wyoming33: if playing 2/1 - dont think its a reverse jamiehm: i have read both that there is no reverse in 2/1 and another book says there is which it it grizz: but in new england many play it the other way grizz: so there really is no right or wrong way, but you need to be on the same page with partner bluehi: some play reverse is always on you grizz jamiehm: thank you iamokru: when you open 1 ht with 5 hts, pd bids at 2 level, playing sayc, does 2 sp show a reverse? grizz: i play it as bidding out shape in a forcing auction, not showing extras bluehi: k grizz: but i play the 2!c as a GF bid, and SAYC does not mick357: in sayc it shows reverse and 17 plus bluehi: you mean 1sp 2c jaf1935: nm f PedroG: 2C opening losesome: I am not fond of reverses because they can confuse your partner into thinking the first suit is longer when it may not be grizz: other ideas for N bid here? jaf1935: 3 !c grizz: 2/1 system plays 1!h-2!c as GF PedroG: oki ty BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Indy Tournament #1718 begins in about 15 mins. 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The more that play, the bigger the prizes!H!H grizz: interesting point here too grizz: with a long minor, look for game in NT grizz: most hands that will make 11 tricks in the minor... losesome: this one looks very iffy grizz: will make 9+ in NT grizz: even with one fuzzy stopper grizz: 3!c is nonforcing losesome: maybe - but hard to see if you can't see all cards wyoming33: with this bidding pretty well guarantees !D lead grizz: strongly invitational, but nonforcing jaf1935: !d 3 grizz: and not even vagueles suggesting NT jaf1935: nmf grizz: no, this is not a nmf situation grizz: that usually happens after a nt rebid jaf1935: !h 3 grizz: 3!d shows long !cs, and asks about NT game jaf1935: asking f cover helenjon: alert? jaf1935: yes grizz: 4th suit forcing grizz: in 2/1 grizz: but not in SAYC eire1: fourth suit - game values losesome: don't know 2/1 either :( grizz: bid and pray\ jaf1935: forcing a round grizz: how should we play the !d suit? grizz: hunker down alexiss: low jamiehm: low grizz: right grizz: !d is not a source of tricks, but is strong enough to withstand enemy attack jaf1935: the ace is an entry losesome: no brainer in this case grizz: would we get to 3NT without 3!d? grizz: maybe grizz: maybe not jamiehm->Club: what if he just bid 3 nt rather than 3 dia jaf1935: !h 3 grizz: 3!h on stiff? not my choice grizz: i like that long strong !c suit for nt jaf1935: true it was bid from p wyoming33: !C break - grizz: back to long minor jaf1935: not forcing grizz: very useful in NT, as you can see here grizz: might think about slam grizz: which of course is off here wyoming33: but need an outside entry in case suit doesnt run grizz: but should not think primarily about the 5m game jaf1935: no slm 2 losers in !d grizz: right grizz: question grizz: for those of you who have regular partners jaf1935: never had one grizz: if the auction goes 2!h-2!c-2!s, does that show a reverse hand? 17+? grizz: oops PedroG->Club: lookin for one :) grizz: 1!h-2!c-2!s grizz: again, there is no right or wrong loubel: no wyoming33: pkay 2/1 or SAYC jaf1935: I do not think as a 2/1 is bid by p alexiss: yes...in SEF or ForumD its a reverse grizz: depends on partnership agreement, but i think most players will not necessarily have 17+ here dee_dee_20: if pd is forced to bid 3 of openers hand it is considered a reverse BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Indy Tournament #1718 begins in about 5 mins. 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The more that play, the bigger the prizes!H!H jamiehm: i like the no reverse treatment but how do you show big hand then grizz: in SAYC, 2!d is the bid here grizz: keep bidding :) iamokru: playing inverted minors? grizz: 2/1 system has a perfect bid for this hand jaf1935: shuldn't we stop as the tourney is in 5 minutes?? jamiehm: must have 10 pt for inverted minor grizz: called 'Inverted Minors' grizz: must have 10+ for 2!d losesome: you would have E bid 2D with only 3HCPs? grizz: but 3!d perfectly describes this hand jamiehm: 1nt dee_dee_20: yes weak and to play bluehi: 6-9 3dai grizz: subminimum points, but big !d fit grizz: so in SAYC 2!d is weak but 3!d is strong ydannac: weaker bid than 2 bluehi: so 5 bluehi: ok grizz: in 2/1 2!d is strong but 3!d is weak grizz: so the meanings of the 2 bids are inverted losesome: some open convenient minor and might only have 3 cards in D grizz: ok, tourney starting soon, so we should wrap this up jamiehm: in 2/1 can i bid 1 nt forcing then bid dia saying not enough pts for 2 level response grizz: true grizz: but grizz: the only hand where that is true is 4432 jaf1935: in 3 minutes ur tourneys is starting sorry!!!! dee_dee_20: in that case most likely opps will enter bidding losesome: right - but it happens :) jamiehm: that's right tks grizz: ok, good luck to all playing in the tourney, and i will stick around a while for questions grizz: thx to all who attended, and i'll see you next week bluehi: tu jaf1935: thx !h bye nice lesson PedroG: Ty Pete another great lesson :) losesome: bye grizz :) eire1: thank you very much jamiehm: tks for lesson bluehi: will u be with norri sunday and is it open to all others grizz: Thanks also to Maureen, Fred, the BIL assistants and the other wonderful people at BBO who make this all possible. ydannac: THANKS GRIZZ!H!H! alexiss: ty...very interesting ->bluehi: yes and yes :) bluehi: time LadyStar17: hugs need to run to the tourney really neat format!!! ->LadyStar17: :) ->bluehi: hang on wyoming33: western cue? only bid after at least 1ops and you and P? ->bluehi: norrie at 10 PDT, and PedroG at noon PDT, both open to kibs bluehi: great grizz: right grizz: asking pd whether ops' suit is stopped, hoping so for NT wyoming33: right - its just that I have always seen it at 3 level - grizz: level could be 2 or 3 wyoming33: so I just saw:) grizz: but usually 2, now that you mention it :) grizz: depends on the order of the suits in the auction wyoming33: correct grizz: usually 3, i meant - fat fingers grizz: and is usually the last stop before 3NT wyoming33: right grizz: unless no stopper, then scramble for the best contract wyoming33: yes - and hope its a better fit than the hand we had here:) grizz: ok gang, lunch time in grizz land - thx for watching, and i'll see you next saturday