BILAssist (Lobby): hi   topic   or play and discuss??
->BILAssist: hi, more of same, but first some discussion of Coded 9 & T
BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table will begin in the BIL in about 5 mins. All members are invited to attend this very informative lesson. Todays topic will cover a variety of things   AND   Coded 9's & 10's !H!H
grizz: hi all, welcome to another session   :)
->gillyfleur: :)
myjoy: hi
->myjoy: :)
wyoming33: HI:)
grizz: Hi all, while we are waiting are there any questions from past sessions?
anegada: hi
Pepi 02: hi all
->anegada: :)
citronelle: i never been in a session before
grizz: wlc, i hope you enjoy it
frigon123: 1 time for me to
shawgirl: tks
citronelle: tnk y
grizz: wonderful!   always good to have new kibs
MargoM: & me
grizz: summer is over (heavy sigh) and we can get back to the bridge table
BILAssist: A    BIG    BILlie Welcome to all    If you have anyquestions, please feel free to ask
gillyfleur: on its way here i hope!
wyoming33: we all part of the memti team - which hasnt been doing very well so far
->gillyfleur: :)
grizz: is there a tournament among teachers' teams?
wyoming33: no
grizz: hmmmm     maybe there should be!
wyoming33: trying to work up something
anegada: would be fun
BILAssist: sounds like an interesting idea!!
grizz: y!
wyoming33: anybody volunteer to organize :)
grizz: i volunteer to field and coach a team   :)
aces_pat: may I play on your team lolol
wyoming33: not like geof/s 1st one - 
anegada: maybe could be on the vugrapph  lol
BILAssist: : ))
kbacc: tell us how to join please
wyoming33: LOL
grizz: what a great idea!
->aces_pat: send me an email!
citronelle: me
citronelle: lol
->citronelle: send me an email!
wyoming33: always comes down to getting enough together to have a team - 
BILAssist: Idea is just comng together    Stay tuned    I'll see what I can do to help out
grizz: great, please keep me in the loop
grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense.  
grizz: Here we go with the usual stuff.
BILAssist: count on it
grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review.  For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me.
grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons.  If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com.
grizz: The new website is up now, thanks to the help of PedroG.  Gracias amigo!
citronelle: oh y habla espanol!
gillyfleur: what is link for new website please pete?
BILAssist: www.grizzbridge.com
grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at the new BIL Library, thanks to Maureen and her wonderful assistants.
wyoming33: not sure - but understand not everything is free there
grizz: at the bil?
citronelle: at the library it is not free?
wyoming33: right at the library
grizz: i believe so
citronelle: it is free
grizz: There will be lots of questions.  I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat.  
bfan: you have to be a premium member to get to articles and review of hands
grizz: I cannot respond to private chat during a lesson.
grizz: Before we start with any hands, I want to revisit some issues from past lessons, and point you toward some other resources.  
wyoming33: everything in the library is not free - Rosemary's site is
gillyfleur: what is rosemarys link?
grizz: thx for the update, i think that my lesson archives are free.    i don't charge for them, at any rate
grizz: and would be very disappointed if somebody else did!
citronelle: thank you grizz for your generosity
plaur: nope its a pay site
grizz: hmmm    i must do some homework, it seems
wyoming33: Rosemary please give your site address
plaur: Sorry you can not access this area because you are not a premium member.
grizz: this is the first i heard about premium memberships
Callmegail: me too
grizz: all my content has been donated for free
wyoming33: please read the most recent gazette
dryheat: what is a premium member
grizz: but let's go forward
Bluebird35: yes all of $6 for 6 months.............
grizz: Questions frequently arise about what is the proper bid or lead in standard methods.  
wyoming33: right:)
grizz: In beginner and intermediate games frequently (and sadly) we have the blind leading the blind.
BILAssist: www.thinkstop.com/bilbridge       click on register if it is your first time there   it is a free and secure site   no adverts
grizz: One never knows how much trust they can put in an answer or opinion on these matters.
grizz: That is also true of bridge teachers, since we have so many diverse opinions about so many issues.
grizz: Fortunately there is a source of good information about bidding and carding that is available for free.  
grizz: When you get a chance, look at:  http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=bw_standard&f=bwsall.html
BILAssist: if you find they are not free   let me know    I have plenty of space  and would be glad to spread the good news from Grizz
grizz: If you don't know about Bridge World Magazine, now is a good time to get acquainted.  BW is the journal of record for our game.
grizz: From time to time they take polls of world class and expert players, to get their opinions about what "standard practices" really are.
grizz: And of course those opinions change over time.
grizz: The most recent compilation of these opinions was taken in 2001, and is represented there as "Bridge World Standard".
grizz: There are 38 pages of opinions on bidding, leads and defensive signals, but read them carefully.
grizz: For many topics there is a "default" position taken by the majority, and a sort of minority report called [leaf].  Don't ask me what 'leaf' means, I have no idea!
grizz: But default and leaf are mutually exclusive, so discuss these issues with your partner(s).
grizz: I bring this up now for a couple reasons.  
grizz: First is to give you a source of unassailable information for issues about which so much bad information is floating around.  
grizz: Second is so that you can verify that the information you get from me is correct.
grizz: Third is to show where my methods vary from standard, and this is where I would like to revisit Coded 9 & 10, to show where it varies from standard methods and why.
grizz: First take a look at:  http://homepage.mac.com/bridgeguys/BGlossary/BridgeWorldDefense.html
citronelle: as I was not in the previous lesson I am confused
grizz: be patient, i will explain
grizz: This is a subset of the full BWS system, dealing just with defensive leads and signals.
grizz: Notice that against NT, it says to lead the highest equal from non-Ace sequences and interior sequences .
grizz: So from KJTxx, under standard methods at Trick 1 you would lead the J.
grizz: certainly that is true from KJT9x
grizz: probably from KJT8x
grizz: and maybe from KJTxx
grizz: As third hand, you would have to guess whether it was from JT9xx or KJTx, and you would not know for sure unless you saw the K  in dummy, your hand, or from declarer at Trick 1.
grizz: So there is only one card that can clear up the confusion, and allow you to answer the most important question at Trick 1 - "Continue or switch?"
grizz: If partner has the big honor, you should continue the suit when you get in.  Otherwise you should look for tricks elsewhere.
grizz: Is everybody clear so far?
Jaf1935: y
kasey28: y
camilleln: y
grizz: ok, good
Callmegail: what is 'highest equal'?
stefsched: confused; sry; should the P of the lead play the big honor?
grizz: we are not referring to the hands that are shown, this is just a general discussion
stefsched: i know that
grizz: as for stef's q, we are not talking about third hand play
stefsched: P, player 3, should duck the lead but lead back that suit later?
grizz: but how third hand can know what is in first hand
grizz: separate issues, we have dealt with them before and will again, but i want to focus on this topic for now
grizz: 'highest equal' means the top card of a sequence
aces_pat: if you play coded 9-10  you will know
citronelle: so the second highest on the sequence
grizz: so from JT9xx you would lead the J under standard methods, not the T or 9
grizz: that is under Standard Methods
grizz: This is where I diverge from standard methods.
grizz: I teach Coded 9 & T, also known as "J Denies"
citronelle: what T means?
grizz: Sometimes amplified as "J Denies, T or 9 Implies"
stefsched: ten
grizz: T=10
citronelle: thanks
grizz: Using this system, from KJT9x we lead the T.
PHowardEsq: KJ?
grizz: Which guarantees either no higher cards in that suit, or 2 higher INCLUDING the T.
grizz: Likewise, from QT98x we would lead the 9.
grizz: oops, i made a mistake already
dryheat: why is that way of greater value than standard
beha04: always NT contract?
grizz: i will explain, but first must describe the leads
grizz: Lead of the T guarantees either no higher cards in that suit, or 2 higher INCLUDING the J.
wyoming33: thx - wondered
grizz: Likewise, from QT98x we would lead the 9.
grizz: Lead of the 9 guarantees either no higher cards in that suit, or 2 higher INCLUDING the T.
dkgrab: so that gives 3rd seat decision of whether to duck (depending on dummy) or unblock
grizz: So we have a touching tenace, or nothing at all higher in the suit.
grizz: Doesn't affect that decision, so much as whether to continue that suit later
gillyfleur: I think it wd have to be p/ship agreement or it looks like top of 0 doesnt it?
dogoronan1: a "touching" tenace, or broken sequence?
grizz: Remember, third hand's most important decision early in the hand is whether to continue partner's first led suit, or to switch.
grizz: could be either top of nothing, or show touching tenace
grizz: And here is the important difference from standard methods.
grizz: Playing C9T, if you see the lead of the T, and you see the J you know it's the top of nothing.
grizz: If you see the Q, you also know it's top of nothing.
grizz: And if you see the K, you can suspect that it's top of nothing.
citronelle: sorry what is C I am ignorant in this matter
dogoronan1: ?? lead T from KJTxx and 3rd hand may see the Q??
grizz: So there are more cards that can tell you the story, and help you make that important decision.
citronelle: tnks
grizz: Q could be in dummy, in 3rd hand, or played by declarer at Trick 1
wyoming33: see Q - could still have 2 higher if not see J
dogoronan1: right  Eileen
grizz: You have more good information on which to base that decision using Coded 9 & T
grizz: And the defense is starved for information at Trick 1!
grizz: Does everybody see the advantage here?
anegada: y
BILAssist: y
aces_pat: y
dogoronan1: no
dryheat: yes
Pepi 02: y
avidtom: ?
camilleln: y
grizz: Makes it harder for declarer to false-card and throw defenders off!
citronelle: yeah but exemples please of code 9 and T
grizz: we should revisit this topic with predealt hands
wyoming33: is these only on 1st lead
grizz: go back in the archives to the first 10 lessons, we covered the topic in excruciating detail
citronelle: where in the library?
wyoming33: true - with lots of examples
grizz: ask a bil assistant, i need to move on
kasey28: do you play coded 9,10 in nt and also suit contract?
gillyfleur: I hope all this is on website pete ?
wyoming33: along same vein - does lead of J guarantee the 10?
grizz: sry to hit and run, didn't realize we would have so many new members
grizz: in bil library, yes
grizz: vs. nt, lead of J in suit not bid by partner should guarantee the T9x(x)
gillyfleur: which apparently we cant access?
grizz: try after this lesson, and i will too, i think it's free
wyoming33: thx
camilleln: Kantor makes 2 excepitons, AK109 & AQ109 as these have 3 higher cards....would you subscribe to these exceptions and would it include the same if 5 cards instead of 4?
grizz: i have been able to access it for free, anyway
wyoming33: you are a premier member
beha04: because you are a teacher I guess
citronelle: it is free but we have to re register
grizz: in general i would agree, but would depend on the entire holding, the auction and table sense too
grizz: Eddie likes Coded 9 & T too
grizz: and it was the standard in expert circles where i learned to play duplicate
grizz: and still is, in many parts of the country
grizz: but you just need to know that C9T is not 'standard methods' according to Bridge World
dkgrab: cool   thx
grizz: can i have a show of hands, should we do more of this next week with predealt hands?
camilleln: y
citronelle: yeah please
culloden: y
anegada: y
dkgrab: i would like to see it in action   yes
idee fixe: y
peterb370c: that would be great
grizz: ok, the "y's" have it!
wyoming33: is we are going to learn it - is easier to learn when seen
grizz: right
cdt: y
grizz: most of you have seen it already, but it turns out that many have not
citronelle: with some examples, with theory
grizz: sure
gypsy1308: y please
citronelle: please
grizz: ok, agenda for next week is set
grizz: now let's do some hands
citronelle: thanks, how to see that agenda?
dogoronan1: question please
grizz: ok, go
grizz: lol   with the question
dogoronan1: tell me: I lead the T, you see Q in dummy, you hold the A.  declarer plays low from dummy. what do you do?
grizz: good question.    this is a situation where you should finesse the dummy, IF you have a card at least as big as the 9
grizz: the 9 or higher card will force an honor, and protect partner's holding
dogoronan1: you lost me. sorry
grizz: we did a couple lessons on finessing dummy too, they are in the archives
grizz: can we leave that for next week, when i have predealt hands?
grizz: important concept
grizz: very important
grizz: but needs hands to demonstrate
grizz: now what?    2!H?
grizz: 3!h?
grizz: 2NT?
grizz: 4!h?
barryweiss: 3 hts i think
anegada: 2nt
aces_pat: 4h
dogoronan1: 4H
gypsy1308: 4!H
dkgrab: 2nt
Jaf1935: 2nt
camilleln: 2nt
grizz: any other response from S, and 2NT would be clear
wyoming33: 4!H
culloden: sry
grizz: i like 3!h
gillyfleur: yes show fit and points at once then south can make slam (if any) decision!
grizz: because it leaves room for cuebids, if S has slam interest
Pepi 02: 2 clubs..................
wyoming33: that not forcing 
dogoronan1: 3H and get passed?
grizz: true
wyoming33: 3!H nor forcing
grizz: and if S has only 5 hcp, 3 is plenty
aces_pat: 4h  says big hand
anegada: 2 nt is jump,shift
wyoming33: 4 says P we have game with your 6 if you have more cue
grizz: !SQ does not pull its weight here
aces_pat: yes
mojila: doent 3!H says.. may have 3 0r 4 cards otherwise would open 1H instead 1!C
grizz: y
barryweiss: shouldnt south bid 4 hts, he has the pts
grizz: since the !SQ is not protected, we can't count it as 2
gypsy1308: true
grizz: unless S has Jxx or Axx
grizz: so 3!h, tho nonforcing, i think is best
barryweiss: you think south should pass?
grizz: with 5-8 hcp S has a problem
aces_pat: he has extra H
grizz: but with more S has easy time
grizz: right
grizz: but no ace to cue, so 4!h is best
barryweiss: but norht jumped south knows his partner has good points
grizz: since S did not cue anything, N would be in error to blast into blackwood here
grizz: S has not made any strong bids
grizz: so, for those of you who thought 2NT was the right rebid, let's do it over
grizz: wait, i will lead and claim first, so the hand saves properly for all of you
wyoming33: 2NT denies 4!H
grizz: exactly right
aces_pat: no way to find fit after 2nt
grizz: right, N will never be able to convince S that he has !hs
wyoming33: S bid 3NT
barryweiss: why 3 dia???
grizz: this is a 2/1 treatment, New Minor Forcing, showing 5!hs
aces_pat: y
barryweiss: ah.. so 3 dia means 5 hts??
grizz: right
wyoming33: true if play NMF
grizz: right, but very tough to find !hs otherwise
barryweiss: it is called new minor forcing, WHEN is that used?
anegada: north would say 4 hts
aces_pat: yes
grizz: and if NS do not play NMF????
grizz: 3!c is nonforcing
aces_pat: s  bids 3nt
wyoming33: say south say 3NT probably
grizz: 3!h is a terrible bid with this crummy suit, even though 5 long
aces_pat: he would bid 3nt
wyoming33: correct
grizz: so 3NT is the choice of evils bid
anegada: y
mojila: better looks 3N
mojila: sry
anegada: north corrects to 4 hts
aces_pat: but  north should bid 4H  I think
anegada: y
wyoming33: yes
anegada: same destination-- different road
aces_pat: harder road
grizz: ok, it works here, but on many hands it would not
anegada: ok
Jaf1935: i'm always afraid after 3 !h p passes
grizz: either we would get too high in a side suit, play nt when should play in suit, or get too high in !hs looking for slam
anegada: with jump shift south knows there is a game
grizz: y, 3!h is NF, that can be a problem
grizz: the other view you could take is this:
wyoming33: 3!H shows 16+  - with 18+ I prefer going right to 4
grizz: now what?
aces_pat: pass
barryweiss: p
beryl8: no chance for slam....
grizz: now we have a lot of other things to consider
aces_pat: you have 8 losers
grizz: would p open 2!C with a strong 2-suiter?
grizz: most experts would not
aces_pat: no
grizz: even with 20
grizz: if pd might tho, some slam exploration is in order
grizz: 0314
citronelle: it is late in europe lol
grizz: so no disaster on this hand, since makes 5
citronelle: the lessons shall not be earlier?? please!
grizz: but many other similar hands will make only 4, and we are 1 level too high
aces_pat: should south bid 4nt  with the weak Diamond doubleton?
grizz: too bad that we are half a world apart, but the lesson hand records and chat log are in the bil library
Jaf1935: Is it not the contrary with 3 !h intention for slam and 4 !h is a sign off !h??
grizz: lol   thx for the update!
gypsy1308: well u would only ask if u had more than 10 points
gillyfleur: why bid b/w if not holding an ace?
grizz: IF pd could have a strong 2-suiter, THEN S is justified in launching into BW
grizz: not otherwise
citronelle: sorry it is almost 1 am here must go to bed
dkgrab: if south had only 5hcp   3!H would be more palatable
grizz: y, and then 3!h might be all it makes
gypsy1308: i would pass with only 5 points
grizz: so all things considered, i still like 3!h, not 2NT or 4!h
beryl8: !!
grizz: but there is certainly room for other opinions!
anegada: thats good enough for me
aces_pat: lol
grizz: lol
citronelle: i ask y a favor could you put in your agenda earlier, It is 1h am in europe and i am asleep sorry
dkgrab: thx Pete   c u
->citronelle: sry, never up til lesson time, but archives always accessible
->dkgrab: :)
citronelle: thanks night
grizz: now what?   
grizz: 2NT?
grizz: 2!s?
anegada: y
Wayne_LV: 2NT
alexiss: 1!s
aces_pat: 2nt
cdt: 1!S
gypsy1308: 1!S
Jaf1935: !s 1
grizz: 18 hcp, 1!s seems cowardly   :)
citronelle: 3nt
mojila: 2!D woulndt be rev.. to show points 
grizz: but that would distort shape
citronelle: but I will see this last hand
mojila: ok
gypsy1308: take it slowly lol leaves room to tell more
grizz: no good reason to do that here, and could backfire
ydannac: a reverse now 
grizz: i like 2NT here, for several reasons
aces_pat: does not 2s  distort shape?
grizz: misc
grizz: it's a balanced hand, and nt tellls that story
aces_pat: y
alexiss: i want to describe my hand...p cant pass 1!s...or?...p could also have 4 spades
grizz: it's 18-19, and 2NT tells that story
gypsy1308: but if p has 4!S miss the fit
ydannac: much better !S are so weak too
grizz: not likely to miss either 5-3 !h fit or 4-4!ss
grizz: and the !s suit is puny
BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Indy Tournament #1581 begins in about 15 mins. Click on Tournaments to the right of the Chat Window to register from the lesson or playing. Pleae register to play for Fun, $ prizes and BBO Masterpoints. The more that play, the bigger the prizes!H!H
grizz: if N has !S, would bid them here
aces_pat: y
grizz: so no risk of losing the !s fit
alexiss: but doesnt 2NT deny 4 spades?
wyoming33: systems on over this  2NT bid
grizz: and N is balanced too, so i don't like 3!c
grizz: that would suggest a singleton somewhere
grizz: also would be NF in this auction
aces_pat: nice lead :)
grizz: lead of the T should show the 98, but Kantar says it's OK from the 97
grizz: lol   doesn't help much on this hand, does it?
aces_pat: will give a trick
aces_pat: to declarer
wyoming33: its finessable anyway
grizz: it's a trick that declarer can get himself by finessing, but this takes him off the guess
aces_pat: no entries
grizz: but here is an important concept in NT defense
grizz: usually it's a race between the two sides to establish length winners while they still have entries to cash them
grizz: so if defenders are entitled to any !d tricks, they must lead the suit and drive out stoppers while they still have entries
grizz: like the !SA
grizz: so vs NT, lead from face cards is always better than lead from A
grizz: and sequence leads are always better than leads from A
grizz: otherwise you waste your entries without establishing anything to enter for!
rajen: is the T not IMPLYINg?
grizz: T shows 0 or 2 higher, including the J
rajen: ok, so 0 here.
grizz: S E should play high
grizz: put your declarer hat on for a minute
grizz: which card would you play from S and why?
rajen: A
joyable: ace
wyoming33: A - so east doesnt know where K is
grizz: right
anegada: A
aces_pat: ace     so west may think p has K
Jaf1935: !d j
imelda68: A op will wonder where K is
grizz: make E think that W has the K, so as to suppress a shift
BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Indy Tournament #1581 begins in about 5 mins. Click on Tournaments to the right of the Chat Window to register from the lesson or playing. Pleae register to play for Fun, $ prizes and BBO Masterpoints. The more that play, the bigger the prizes!H!H
grizz: but
grizz: if S had the Axx, or Ax, wouldn't he play low?
aces_pat: hmmm
aces_pat: y
grizz: so if i'm E, i play S for the K and switch if i get in
wyoming33: prob - 
grizz: maybe S wants E to think that W has the A?
aces_pat: yes  more deceptive
grizz: right
grizz: E is still on the guess
grizz: but
grizz: most experts will not underlead an ace at Trick 1
wyoming33: even in NT?
grizz: so if i'm E, i still play S for the big one and switch
aces_pat: lol
grizz: y
LadyStar17: !D!DGreat Lesson, Grizz!!   thanks!H!H
grizz: A being a sure entry
grizz: ok, time to wrap it up for the tourney, thx all for coming and i'll see you next week
anegada: thx
Campus61: tks Grizz
wyoming33: thaks very much for lesson:)
grizz: next week we will do more J Denies
mojila: thanks very much grizz
mojila: and bil assist
dryheat: tks
grizz: with predealt example hands, quizzes and such
gillyfleur: ty pete enjoyed
->gillyfleur: :)
gypsy1308: great thks
Wanda310: Thank you Pete
->Campus61: :)
->Wanda310: :)
coco24: ty very helpful
->LadyStar17: :)
LadyStar17 (Lobby): yes
grizz: bye all