BILManager (Lobby): hi    is there a topic   or play and discuss??
->BILManager: hi, more NT defense
BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table is now open in the BIL.  Topic is "More NT Defense"  All members are invited to attend this very informative lesson!H!H
grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense.  
PedroG: I have a small question about third hand play
grizz: sure
PedroG: imagine that y lead low 
grizz: as 1st hand, ok
PedroG: and partner can try win the trick but has sequence JT9, should he play low or high?
PedroG: dummy has nothing
grizz: always play the lowest of equals, with one exception
grizz: reason is, pd can then deduce location of honors
grizz: and some spot cards too
grizz: if 3rd hand plays the 9, he denies the 8
grizz: and if declarer must win with a major honor, pd can deduce that you have the T (and maybe J too)
Karen10: what was the exception??:)
grizz: so cover with your cheapest card, and lead your most expensive from a sequence
grizz: or, highest when leading, lowest when following
grizz: exception is when you want to send a strong message
grizz: e.g. you have doubleton AK, and pd leads the suit
grizz: according to the general rule, you win as cheaply as possible
grizz: you are going to win anyway, but you want to tell pd that you have only 2, and can ruff the 3rd round
grizz: so in that case you win the A, return the K, and then switch
grizz: pd should get the message
grizz: does that answer the question?
grizz: there are lots of 'rules' in bridge, but the meaning of the rules is what matters
grizz: as to opening leads, the most important question that 3rd hand must answer is:
grizz: 'if I get in, should I continue that suit or switch?'
grizz: because we must remember, opening leader took his best shot at a defensive plan, but did not yet see dummy
grizz: and dummy might change everything
grizz: Here we go with the usual stuff.
grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review.  For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me.
grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons.  If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com.
grizz: The new website is up now, thanks to the help of PedroG.  Gracias amigo!
grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at Grizzbridge.com, on the Lessons page.
PedroG: it was a pleasure
grizz: We are missing some of the past sessions, from #1, 14 and 15.
grizz: So if anybody has those chat logs and hand records, could you please email them to me and I will put them up on the website?
grizz: There will be lots of questions.  I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat.  
grizz: I cannot respond to private chat during a lesson.
grizz: Are there any questions so far?
grizz: As all you you know, there are a lot of different systems for bidding in bridge.  They all have strengths and weaknesses.
grizz: And there is disagreement about what those strengths and weaknesses are.
grizz: The same is true but to a far lesser extent of defense.  
grizz: I am speaking of Jack Denies, also known as Coded 9 and T.  This is a departure from the good old days, and not everybody thinks it to be an improvement.
grizz: I think it is, so I teach it.  Others may or may not, according to their opinion.
grizz: You are free to pick and choose which systems work for you, and I encourage you to learn as much as you can and keep an open mind.
grizz: Whatever systems you choose, discuss them with your partner and make sure you agree.  
grizz: Last week we talked about notrump opening leads, went over some general rules and looked at some examples.  
grizz: Let us review those rules. 
grizz: Notrump is a race to see which side can establish and cash its winners first.  
grizz: Both sides usually have enough tricks to get the job done, but one side runs out of time.
grizz: Notrump defense is about long suits and entries.  Long suits are where the extra tricks are, and entries allow you to cash them.
grizz: For those of you who are tired of hearing this again, please bear with me - we have some newcomers.
grizz: That is why it is usually best to start with your side's long suit.  
grizz: The race to develop tricks starts at Trick 1, and if the defense does not get on with its Job #1 then momentum and timing shift to the declarer.
grizz: Here are some general rules for NT leads as a review, for those who may not have attended previous sessions.
grizz: By the way, these rules are for 1st hand LEADS, they do not apply to 3rd hand FOLLOWING!
grizz: That bears repeating, these rules are only for the OPENING LEAD.
grizz: It may seem odd that we are on Week 19 of NT Defense and still on Trick 1, but as you have seen there is a lot to say about it.
grizz: 1.  If your partner has bid a suit, lead it, unless you have a strong suit of your own and an outside entry.  
grizz: 2.  Strong top-of-sequence leads from 4-card suits (KQJx. KQTx. QJTx) are better than weaker but longer suits (Jxxxx, Qxxxx).
grizz: 3.  If you have the choice between an unbid major or an unbid minor with similar strength in each, the major is usually a better prospect.  
grizz: 4.  If dummy uses Stayman he can be assumed to have one or two 4-card majors.  
grizz: 5.  If your hand is dreadful, try to hit partner's long suit, even if he hasn't bid.  Any suit that he might have bid at the 1 level but didn't will be an unlikely candidate for ...
grizz: this desperation lead.
grizz: 6.  If dummy has announced during the auction that he has a long, strong suit, you must make an aggressive lead in another suit.  AKx. KQx or QJx are better in this case than ...
grizz: weaker but longer suits.
grizz: 7.  Partner needs to know whether you have any honors in the suit you lead.  If a switch must be made at Trick 2, partner needs to know and act quickly.  
grizz: A.  The lead of a low card in an unbid suit promises an honor.  So if you lead low, expect partner to return that suit if he gets in.  
grizz: B.  Likewise, the lead of a big spot card tends to deny an honor.  Partner is notified that he must switch.
grizz: C.  Leading from a strong 4-card suit like AQTx, AQJx, AJTx, or AKTx usually costs a trick.  Odds are that RHO has the missing honor, and a lead from one of these sequences goes ...
grizz: right into declarer's tenace.
grizz: But it is a GOOD idea to lead from a strong 5-card suit, such as AQTxx, AQJxx, AJTxx, or AKTxx.
grizz: D.  The lead of a Q shows either the top of a sequence (QJT, QJ9) OR a powerful combination headed by the KQT9.  
grizz: If the opening leader may have that combination, that is you do not see the K,T or 9 but you do have the J, you should play it at Trick 1.  
grizz: Otherwise you would give a Count signal.
grizz: So opening lead of a Q calls for Unblock the J or Count 
grizz: E.  The lead of a K shows either a sequence or a short suit  (AKx, KQx).  
grizz: F.  Leading an A shows a very strong suit, headed by AKQ, AKJT, AKJ (or AQJ with an outside entry).  Since the A is a guaranteed entry, it is rare to waste it on the opening lead.
grizz: G.  Playing Coded 9's and T's, also known as Jack Denies (and T or 9 Implies),  the lead of a J denies a higher honor, but guarantees a sequence if it is an unbid suit.  
grizz: The lead of a T or 9 now specifically shows 0 or 2 cards higher.  If leader has 2 higher cards, they are specifically a touching tenace (KJT9, KT98, AT98, AJT9, etc.)  
grizz: Remember, these rules are for 1st hand LEADS, they do not apply to 3rd hand FOLLOWING.
grizz: We will talk about 3rd hand play in following weeks, but here is a sneak peek at the rules, and you will be happy to know that they are much simpler.
grizz: 1.  Win the trick, unless there is a good reason not to.
grizz: 2.  Give Attitude on partner's lead - tell him whether to continue the suit or switch.
grizz: 3.  Give Count on declarer's lead, to help partner figure out suit distribution around the table.
grizz: Any questions so far?
freckles36: Are these all standard leads?
grizz: All are standard except Jack Denies
meshmeshaa: which takes priorty ..count or attitude?
grizz: In standard methods, you lead the top card from an interior sequence, e.g.  J from KJT9x
grizz: 2.  Give Attitude on partner's lead - tell him whether to continue the suit or switch.
grizz: 3.  Give Count on declarer's lead, to help partner figure out suit distribution around the table.
grizz: There is one other case in which you give count on partner's lead:
grizz: When dummy wins the trick, give count
grizz: Some play the lead of the A asks for count and the kead of the K asks for attitude is that a convention that needs to be alerted?
grizz: This is a good system, and I use it
grizz: though i must confess, have never seen it alerted
wwylie: question - is upside down attitude - rule 7 A and B compatible with coded 9's and 10's ??
freckles36: thought lead of A asks p to unblock or give count
grizz: absolutely compatible
grizz: remember, these rules are for LEADS
grizz: UDCA only comes into play when FOLLOWING
jacquiek: ucda?
grizz: we will talk about UDCA later
grizz: Upside Down Count and Attitude
jacquiek: ty
grizz: but for now, i want to concentrate on when and why to make certain signals
grizz: and these concepts don't depend on standard or udca - those are concerned with the 'how'
grizz: Example #1 demonstrates high level partnership defense on a real hand.
mcourt: should we be looking at all hands or kibitzing one?
grizz: you can look at all the hands, and see better what's happening
grizz: anybody think that N should take action here?
dae: why didn't S bid 1 nt      doesnt 2 c promis 5?
meshmeshaa: no
grizz: balanced minimum, no major
Socialdot: not me too chicken
idee fixe: no
drgarie2xx: no
gypsy1308: no
grizz: and S denied a major
HappyMo: I shouldn't bid 2!c . I prefer 1nt
Socialdot: yes
meshmeshaa: me too
grizz: why didn't S bid 1 nt      doesnt 2 c promis 5?
Socialdot: short club
meshmeshaa: south dosnt know if clubs are 2 or 5
grizz: would anybody like to declare 1NT with the S cards?   nothing in either major?
smudge1: not i!
Socialdot: no, no stoppers
dae: then N knows pd has 4 of them
grizz: me neither!   been there, done that, got the T-shirt to prove it!
moonjohn: S pass
jacquiek: right...i would support conv minor...telling p I have a minimum
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wwylie: i would bid 3c - on principal - just to push them 
grizz: even worse if W makes a takeout X, and E leaves it in
smudge1: but isn't the club bid dangerous?
wwylie: it's nil all 
grizz: but what if pd has a 2NT rebid?   you might miss game
grizz: and ops might not be so kind as to reopen
Dianne0516: Doesn't ptnr have another bid here?
grizz: S?   sure
grizz: N should pass and get S's opinion on the matter
grizz: anybody think E should bid?
dae: n
ezed_99: why S bid 2C???
idee fixe: no
grizz: scroll up, i already answered that
Socialdot: no
krh1205 (Lobby): may I watch
HappyMo: no
->krh1205: sure
PedroG: no
gypsy1308: no
grizz: let me go back to the 2!c bid
jacquiek: no..get out of Dodge.
grizz: S certainly may bid 1NT
wwylie: misfit E shld pass 
grizz: and would be able to defend the bid in the post mortem
HappyMo: ok the right bidding- 1nt
wwylie: and pray south bids again 
grizz: but when ops take 9 of the first 10 tricks, he looks pretty morose
anegada: knows they have at least 7 clubs
PedroG: :)
grizz: maybe even 10 of the first 11
jacquiek: yuk
grizz: so i HATE 1NT by S here
PedroG: no post-mortem after that
wyoming33: me too:(
grizz: it solves the immediate problem of what to bid, but it's a terrible contract
grizz: it's nonforcing
dae: then N would correct to C
analisals: n
->dae: no more private chat, say it to the group
grizz: ok, and E has no business bidding here
grizz: first rule of misfits - get out early
ezed_99: i agree
grizz: oh, and N should not correct 1NT to 2!C, with a 4 card suit and no doubleton to ruff
grizz: anybody think S should bid on?
moonjohn: some play a 1!D by south to show a bust hand ?
peterb370c: don't some play 1NT over 1!c is 9 - 11 hcp   never with only 6?
ezed_99: no
jacquiek: no
grizz: nope, N showed a minimum hand, and S has nothing more to say
gypsy1308: no nothing more to show
->peterb370c: say it to the group please
PedroG: 65 Kibs, nice :9
grizz: ok, pretend you are N now
peterb370c: pete, don't some play 1NT over 1!C shows 9 - 11 hcp?
->PedroG: about average for this session    :)
PedroG: :)
grizz: some do, others play 8-10
grizz: if so, then 1!d must be alerted
peterb370c: and 1NT?\
grizz: i like 6-10, being more flexible
grizz: but always with a thought about what might happen if i had to play it!
grizz: ok, what should N lead?
meshmeshaa: isnt 1nt in competitve bidding =8-10
dae: unbid major
grizz: depends on partnership agreement, that's not standard
grizz: but remember - bridge logic supercedes the rules
drgarie2xx: n leas a clubs
xfco: 2!C's
grizz: !S or !C lead?
dae: S
ezed_99: i would lead 2H
wwylie: following rule 7 A and B i would lead 2 !C
wwylie: except it's not nt 
grizz: if W has the guarded !CK, there is no safe !c lead
freckles36: what is rule of 7 A and B
grizz: it never pays to lead from this !D holding unless pd has bid it
wwylie: i hope my p has the K seeing he supported 
dae: not lead unsupported Ace or FROM one
grizz: hope is fine, but it's not a plan!
meshmeshaa: 5c
grizz: never lead a trump from this holding
wwylie: ok spade is safe lead then 
dae: 2s promise an honor?
grizz: so best here is a !s
grizz: and this exercise is valuable
wwylie: can't lead !D for sure
grizz: frequently there is no standout 'best' lead, only a choice of bad ones
grizz: in such a case, start with the worst choice and eliminate it
bluehi: you dont want to lead away from the A's not the trump last choice
nubo: hola :)
freckles36: I'd lead clubs
meshmeshaa: me too
jacquiek: me too, since p supported it
grizz: my bbo is acting up, can't read my notes on the hand   
dae: q
PedroG: from the tenace? may give free trick
grizz: heavy sigh
freckles36: get 2 or 3 while you can
wyoming33: if so lead the Ace
jacquiek: good pt.
grizz: if you lead the A and pd doesn't have an honor, you just gave away a trick or 2
grizz: or 3
meshmeshaa: 2c
grizz: it will catch small spot cards, and not improve chances for the defense
grizz: i'm going to to re-send this hand
bluehi: over weak 2  is it the same holding 3trump lead short
freckles36: fi not you nay not get any clubs w would throw thm off on the H
bluehi: ====
bluehi: still same hand
wyoming33: throwing off on trump doesnt hurt you -
grizz: first of all, as N, what do you know about !ss from Trick 1?
xfco: p has 3
analisals: pard doent have any
grizz: Rule 1.  Win the trick, unless there is a good reason not to.
000_bill: pard no like
meshmeshaa: uneven+dicourage
grizz: so W has the Q
analisals: honors I meant
dae: why not third hand high?
moonjohn: south does not like spades
grizz: if S had it, he would play it
dae: the 8    ??
grizz: test
wyoming33: why south play 3?
wyoming33: misclick?
grizz: y
dae: 8 = to 9 o0n board
grizz: right, the 8 is lowest of the 89T equals in hand and in dummy
grizz: my mistake
jacquiek: because 8 is just as good as the 10 since east has the 9
grizz: right
grizz: so W false-carded, but N knows better already
grizz: because of our rules about following to the trick
Socialdot: why not take with the queen?
HappyMo: why !d?
meshmeshaa: queen of s??
Socialdot: yes
grizz: tricky W wants N to think that S has it, or S to think that N has it
grizz: that's what false cards are all about
grizz: so that if either gets in, won't make a killing shift
jacquiek: always play highest of equals as declarer.
analisals: so how does north know who has it pard or W?
grizz: Rule 1.  Win the trick, unless there is a good reason not to.
grizz: if S had it, he would play it
analisals: ty
grizz: N now decideds it's cashout time
fiscryder: maybe 7 from south..havek?
dae: claim time
dae: not quite
HappyMo: If my partner play a high cards like south did, I guess he has the !s. Because I don't just this kind of discard. High means: I'm interested
grizz: i just noticed something
grizz: this is the wrong hand!
bluehi: lol
grizz: hang on
wyoming33: lol
grizz: aha, found it!
BILAssist: : ))
grizz: ok, everybody remember the rules for leads?
grizz: what does N lead here?
dae: are they printed somewhere?
meshmeshaa: hearts
jacquiek: yes....unsupported opening....lead low
grizz: scroll up
bwd1: 5!H
grizz: 1.  If your partner has bid a suit, lead it, unless you have a strong suit of your own and an outside entry.  
grizz: N has junk, so should lead pd's suit
moonjohn: y
grizz: even though W bid nt
grizz: oops, another mistake
dae: not the 10    to unblock, maybe?
mei ann: if you ha d Kxx of p's suit..lead K?
grizz: lol    not my day 
grizz: ok, here is another rule
dae: 3 nt with 8?
meshmeshaa: why 3nt..isnt 2 enough
fiscryder: upon leading pard's suit in this case..... how do you decide which card
Socialdot: west 1 nt bid?
grizz: if you have supported pd's suit, then lead high
grizz: N MUST lead a !h here
grizz: since does not have a good suit and an outside entry
Socialdot: 1nt bid by west?
grizz: interesting play here by S
grizz: just in case N has 3
dae: keep card to cover dummy's honor
grizz: right
wwylie: i think north should lead the 7 !H - denying an honour - rule 7 A -B
dae: He HAs   AN HONOR-THE 10
grizz: N would also lead the 7 from 75
grizz: the T is an honor
wyoming33: right 
grizz: and from 3 to an honor, we lead low
grizz: what does N play now?
idee fixe: 10
peterb370c: T
bwd1: unblock
dae: 10
wwylie: would be an honour with T xxx
j2l: unblock
xfco: 10 to unblock 
fiscryder: tx have trouble remembering 10 is honour in this situation
grizz: exactly
moonjohn: 10\
grizz: notice what happens if N does not unblock
grizz: lead is then in the wrong hand, and unless S has an outside entry, can't get in to cash the good !hs
PedroG: N-S doing the contract :)
grizz: yup
ezed_99: E had no right bidding 3nt
dae: but still don't know why E bid 3 nt       W "might" have only 15?
PedroG: well even 1NT seems to be down
wyoming33: right
grizz: y, 1NT is awful too
grizz: but not down 4!!!!
jacquiek->Club: righto
Socialdot: why bid the 1nt at all?
dae->Club: better is double and pass partners bid
grizz: main lesson here is, lead pd's suit even if ops bid nt behind it
Socialdot: doesn't it promise stoppers in hearts?
Socialdot: not enough obviously
grizz: 1NT was sorta kinda OK, with 1!h stopper and 16
grizz: but raise to 3 was undisciplined
wyoming33: lousy 16 - no aces
grizz: y, and only 1 !h stopper
dae: double and pass
grizz: X not a great bid, with only 3!s, but too good to pass
wwylie: i saw papi bid a 1nt overcall on something like that in the jimmy cayne match earlier - if it's good enough for him .........
grizz: it's a defensible bid, for sure
grizz: but the raise to 3NT was delusional
wwylie: 24 pts was slim alright 
bowsend: what could have been partners response to 1NT
grizz: and the real lesson is the !h lead
analisals: ok
idee fixe->Club: and the unblock
grizz: righto
wyoming33: especially the unblock
idee fixe: ty, appreciate
grizz: E has every right to bid an invitational 2NT
wwylie: i maintain that 7 then 10 is right 
grizz: low from 3 to an honor is right
grizz: 7 distorts either your honor holding or your shape
wyoming33: right - and easier for pard to know you have 3 - 
wwylie: i'm happy to disagree and be friends 
grizz: :)
wwylie: :)
grizz: that's diplomatic, but also incorrect
peterb370c: why did south duck the opening lead?
grizz: The 5 is an ambiguous card at Trick 1.  
grizz: All smaller cards are visible in dummy or the South hand, so it must be either singleton or small from 3 or 4.  
grizz: In no case can it be doubleton.
grizz: South hopes that North has 3, because if so then West has only 2.  
grizz: With guaranteed outside entries, it cannot cost South to duck the first trick, for the sake of clearing the suit later.
grizz: If the 5 was singleton, declarer has the KQJT, and the 9 will never score.  But if the 5 is from 3, partner needs to know it's safe to continue the suit.
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grizz: Hand #2 is another exception to the "3rd Hand High" rule.
grizz: some of you may have never seen a weak NT in action
ydannac: tell us how to bid weak nt
Socialdot: when do you use weak nt?
grizz: same rules as strong NT, but it's a King weaker
grizz: so responder must add 3 points to all his responses, compared with strong NT responses
Socialdot: do you use it all the time rather than strong 1 nt?
grizz: there are a couple ways to play it
grizz: some play it all the time
wwylie: we play weak nt here all the time - it's acol 
grizz: others play it only if NV
wwylie: yes some play variable nt 
grizz: i play it with most of my favorite partners, and both V and NV
grizz: anyway, all balanced minimum hands are opened 1NT
wwylie: i like to play weak nt all the time
grizz: and here is an example hand
jacquiek: so why bother with systems.....p  is just as strong or stronger than opener in order to reply?
grizz: responder is frequently weaker
grizz: though sometimes equally strong, and rarely stronger
grizz: and if both hands are strong, it doesn't matter much which is concealed
ydannac: how do you know if it is a weak or strong nt
grizz: under new acbl rules, you must announce your range when bidding 1NT
jacquiek: so it is kind of a preemptive bid.
grizz: yes, there is a dramatic preemptive nature to the bid
wwylie: i know some pairs - not many - that play the mini nt - 10 - 12 pts 
grizz: ops frequently scramble for a fit if they overcall, sometimes get too high
jacquiek: so do you have to pick one or the other-strong or weak nt?  How else would p know the diff?
grizz: any minority opinions on best lead here?
PedroG: 9-10 I've seen
dae: w   wouldn't transfer?
dae: sorry
grizz: you need to agree with pd on your NT range
Socialdot: looks like a good lead to me
ydannac: ok
grizz: assume 15-17, unless you agree otherwise before the match
jacquiek: i agree....what other lead is there?
ydannac: k
analisals: longest and strongest
grizz: and N should not transfer to !d - need 6+ for that
bluehi: sp or h
dae: why wouldn't E open?
wyoming33: no entries - how you going tog et in and play them if set them up
grizz: ratty 12, 8 losers
grizz: might open it, might not, depending on table feel
dae: ty
wyoming33: but what else to lead
grizz: too many points in unsupported Q and J
jacquiek: I wouldn't...what would be your rebid?
grizz: 1NT, if you play weak NT
grizz: otherwise 1NT rebid if possible, pass if not
dae: that is why I thought E had bid the 1 nt
Wayne_LV: I would open it 1!c all day and plan a rebid of 1NT .... playing 15-17NT
grizz: very interesting play here
grizz: If W has the K, it doesn't matter what E plays
peterb370c: vg play
grizz: The rule says that 3rd hand plays high unless there is an honor in dummy and a finessing position exists against that honor.  
grizz: First let's play it following the rule, and then go back and rethink the position.
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dae: "normally " take A and lead Q back with 2?
grizz: end of problem for declarer
wyoming33: right
grizz: E has no more !ss, and W has no entry
grizz: Declarers, this is a perfect example of how holdup plays work.
grizz: Now let's go back and replay the hand, applying some clever bridge logic to the rule.
BILAssist: super lesson      mind if I take some of the enumerated points out and post them   giving you, of course, full credit??
wwylie: the !D hook is safe to take 
->BILAssist: of course!
grizz: East has the balance of the E-W power, and can see that West cannot have a quick entry to his !s.
grizz: So East creates an entry, by swindling South.
grizz: Should South hold up?   
wyoming33: south afraid to hold up
grizz: What if West started with the AJxxx and the !dK?
wwylie: no 
grizz: Then a cold contract goes down.  South cannot afford to hold up, unless he peeked.
grizz: So South would like to hold up, but cannot afford to.
wyoming33: should - but really cannot
grizz: If he does you are playing at the wrong table, this guy should be playing for the Bermuda Bowl!
wwylie: must take and hope for 4 -3 
xfco: ty pete enjoyed 
grizz: This time when South runs the !D hook, East is prepared to continue !s and sink the contract.  
grizz: ok, that wraps it up for today, any questions?
bluehi: tu
wyoming33: no - thank you:)
freckles36->Club: thanks
Wanda310->Club: thanks Pete
idee fixe: tyvm
bluehi: see u sunday
newaddict->Club: ty
aries05: ty pete
->wyoming33: btw, these leads are straight out of Eddie Kantar, i can't take credit for them
peterb370c: thnx, pete
mei ann: ty pete
PedroG: TY a lot Pete
wyoming33: :)
grizz: ok, gl to all and see you next week
beryl8: !!
->beryl8: :)
Wanda310: tks Pete
analisals: thaks pete
->analisals: :)
PedroG: :) cya
->Wanda310: :)
grizz: bye now