BILManager (Lobby): hi   is there a lesson topic for today    will there be a play of the hands?
->BILManager: hi, today will be putting it all together
->BILManager: leads, signals, and defense in general
BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table will be open in the BIL in about 12 mins. All member are invited to attend this interesting lesson. Today will be a general compilation of leads, signals and defense in general!H!H
BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table will be open in the BIL in about 5 mins. All member are invited to attend this interesting lesson. Today will be a general compilation of leads, signals and defense in general!H!H
BILAssist->Club: !D!DGrizz's Lesson Table is now open in the BIL. All members are invited to attend!H!H
grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense.  
grizz: Here we go with the usual stuff.
grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review.  For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me.
grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons.  If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com.
grizz: The new website is up now, thanks to the help of PedroG.  Obrigado Pedro!
grizz: And archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page.
grizz: There will be lots of questions.  I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat.  
grizz: Are there any questions so far?
grizz: We have talked about leads, third hand play and signals now for several months, and now i think it's time we put everything together
grizz: We started this last week, but got sidetracked on Losing Trick Count analysis.  
grizz: That's OK, LTC is very valuable tool, but let's get back to leads, signals, and defense in general.
grizz: So I will play against the robots today, choosing hands where EW declares, and make comments about leads, play, signals and whatever pops up
grizz: These are random hands, selected only so that EW play NT contracts
grizz: So there may be opportunities for brilliant leads and signals, or there may not
grizz: And as always i encourage participation by all the kibs
grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat
grizz: Since I can't always respond to private chat
grizz: Does anybody need review on opening leads?
pzee: should we kib south?
grizz: this will make more sense if you watch all 4 hands
Ladybug12: can you find back lessons in BIL
grizz: don't know, probably, but all of them are available at GrizzBridge.com for free
BILAssist: www.GrizzBridge.com    is the website
grizz: right, on the Lessons and Archives page
grizz: ok, i don't hear anybody clamoring for review of opening leads - what about 3rd hand play?
grizz: ok then, here we go
grizz: lol    cowardly W today  :)
MtlQueCan: there goes the nt
grizz: sigh
grizz: notice something here
grizz: W Staymaned without a major
pzee: w bid 2 !c but it was not stayman
MtlQueCan: why did w bid 2!C and not 2nt
trudean 24: west asks for major without one
Eelse: 2nt is a transfer?
meshmeshaa: why??
Eelse: and this the only way to invite?
trudean 24: because it is robot?
grizz: if you play that 1NT-2NT is a transfer to !d, the only way you can make an invitational 2NT bid is by first doing phony Stayman
bluehi: are u play 4 way
grizz: i don't know what all the robots play, but assume that they know their own system  :)
grizz: anyway
grizz: if your partnership has this agreement, that 2!c does not promise a major, then it should be alerted
onoway: how to know which is stayman and which an invitation to 2 nt?
meshmeshaa: good question
dae: why would E not assume he had 4 S and bid 3 s?
grizz: it's not always clear
grizz: i would bid that, and can't answer for the robots
bluehi: that would be 4 way transfer   do you see that as better than 2sp  to minor
grizz: good question
grizz: excellent question, in fact
grizz: minor hands are always a problem in NT auctions
Campus61: don't u need more than 4/4 in minor to tranfs
grizz: weak minor hands are not a problem, if you play that 2!s is Minor Suit Stayman, asking for a 4-card minor
meshmeshaa: i think u need 6 minors to transfer..right
grizz: should be more shapely than 4/4
bluehi: 6
grizz: right, you should have 6 for transfer to a minor, even if you play 4-way transfers
grizz: and invitational hands are easy, with 1NT-3!c or 3!d being invitational and natural
grizz: but what about GF or slam invitational minor hands?
grizz: those are always a problem
grizz: so 4-way transfers is a better solution
bluehi: ok
grizz: usually 2!s transfers to !c
grizz: and there are 2 ways to work the !d transfer
grizz: one is 2NT->3!d
grizz: the other is 3!c->3!d
meshmeshaa: transfering to all 4 suits u mean?/
grizz: right
grizz: the upside of 2NT tranferring to !d is that it allows opener to superaccept with max and a good fit
grizz: by bidding !C, the intermediate suit, rather than accepting the transfer
grizz: same with !c, a superaccept would be 2NT
grizz: the downside of the 2NT-3!d transfer is that you cannot now make a 2NT bid invitational to 3NT without a major
pzee: what's a superaccept?
grizz: superaccept is telling partner about maximum and a good fit
bluehi: 17
grizz: y
pzee: thx :)
trudean 24: what kind of bid do u make for super accept here
grizz: one example of superaccept in a major would be:
grizz: 1NT-2!d-3!h
grizz: announcing 4!hs and 17, or a good 16 with a doubleton
trudean 24: ok that answers
bluehi: 2 schools of thought:   one 15,  other 17,  both 4!H
grizz: using 4-way transfers, a superaccept could go like this:
grizz: 1NT-2!s*-2NT*-?
grizz: 2!s is a transfer to !c
grizz: 2NT refuses the transfer, showing 17 and a !c fit
grizz: so if responder was on the fence about inviting, he would now be encouraged to bid on
trudean 24: ty
grizz: there is a better way too, using Walsh relays
grizz: but that would really get us in deep water
grizz: so let's defend the hand
grizz: let's vote on an opening lead here
pzee: 5!c
doldridg: !C5 for me
meshmeshaa: 5c
bluehi: 5c
JonBondi: !D9
grizz: with a hand where none stands out, it's good sometimes to choose the least-bad lead
trafalgar2: !9 don't want to give anything away
grizz: so let's eliminate a couple
maysie: JC
marilyn mm: j hearts
trafalgar2: !d9
Campus61: don't lead away from a K 
grizz: a couple random thoughts
grizz: unbid majors are usually a good place to look for tricks
kbacc: yes?
grizz: E has 4!hs  though, so that's out
bluehi: playi ng coded  9dai
grizz: W suggested !s here, so that doesn't look so hot either
iamokru: what's the matter with the ace of dia?
grizz: the !d9 is safe, but passive leads vs. NT usually help declarer more than defense
grizz: S is on lead
iamokru: oh   got it  sry
grizz: :)
DMMac: how did W suggest Spades?
karseng: stayman
meshmeshaa: 2c
grizz: leading from that !c holding will give away a trick more often than not
DMMac: but the stayman wasn't genuine
karseng: admittedly i'd lead J spade expecting to lead through strength
grizz: and leading the J without the T9 or T8 is not a good idea
iamokru: I have been told to lead from a 4 card suit
DMMac: after the 2NT 2nd bid?
grizz: that's usually best, but not always
grizz: on balance, i think the !hJ is least likely to give them anything they don't deserve
grizz: N has his first opportunity for a signal
grizz: remember his first duty?
grizz: Attitude on pd's suit
dae: attitude?
pzee: take the trick unless...
doldridg: In the system I'm studying, W is declarer in 1NT.  That takes all the guesswork out of opening lead! :)
meshmeshaa: 3
grizz: lol
grizz: ok, N can't take the trick
Manso21: playing ODD /Even the 4!H
grizz: one of the rules of defense is that if you can't win the trick, you give count
grizz: and when signalling, use the loudest card you can afford
meshmeshaa: thats where im confused...count or suit preference..on the first lead????
grizz: first duty is Attitude
barbhow: i thot attitude on first lead
grizz: unless you must win the trick, or cover
doldridg: Here it's both!
grizz: but if 3rd hand can't beat dummy, then should give count
meshmeshaa: so when do i tell p to switch to D??
eubulides: so if W plays 5, play 3
grizz: here is a recap of the 3rd hand rules:
grizz: 1.  Win the trick, unless there is a good reason not to.
grizz: 2.  Give Attitude on partner's lead - tell him whether to continue the suit or switch.
grizz: 3.  Give Count on declarer's lead, to help partner figure out suit distribution around the table.
grizz: so N plays hi-lo to give even count in !cs
dae: how to know that is not attitude?
grizz: either 2 or 4, pd must work it out
grizz: since declarer attacked the suit first, assume N has 2
grizz: now what should S lead back?
karseng: isn't a diamond clear now?
bankasor: 10H
grizz: what if E's !s and N's !d were reversed?
grizz: here's my thinking
grizz: maybe the !h wasn't the best lead, but it didn't give anything away
grizz: and continuing !hs won't give anything away either
grizz: besides
grizz: E has only 1 entry to dummy for a finesse
grizz: and if pd has more than 1 finessible card, i don't want to give declarer a free finesse
grizz: so i lead back a !h, but the BOTTOM of the sequence that i started with
grizz: so pard gets a read on the suit, and a clue about distribution around the table
grizz: here is N's chance for another signal
grizz: it will be clear that he has no !h honors
grizz: so his attitude is known after this trick, and he already gave count
grizz: so
grizz: he can now give Suit Preference
grizz: and he has 3 cards to choose from
grizz: high would ask for !s
grizz: low would ask for !c
meshmeshaa: but doesnt one normally promise something..when he leads in nt?
grizz: sure
grizz: S had an honor sequence
grizz: !HJT9
grizz: ok gang, should S cover here?
trudean 24: no
JonBondi: y
meshmeshaa: theyl go under AKQ
trafalgar2: no
pzee: no!
doldridg: n
grizz: N gave count on the first !c, showing 2
dae: n
grizz: so E has 3
grizz: and can't hook S out of the K
grizz: and doesn't have an outside entry to cash the long !c
grizz: so it's right to duck
trudean 24: give him only one entry to brd if not covered
grizz: exactly
dae: can finesse anyway??
grizz: E can finesse anyway, but might get it wrong
Manso21: why not finesse again !C
trafalgar2: J is gone
grizz: but he will never get it wrong if you don't give him the chance!
grizz: another point
grizz: it's obvious here, but a good point anyway
grizz: when you have a long suit in NT, don't waste length by signalling in that suit
grizz: unless you have to
grizz: make a negative signal in some other suit
grizz: hope than pd can work it out
grizz: and keep your length winners
trafalgar2: why not play !c 10, J went at trick 2?
Manso21: 8!H discard ?
eubulides: if e believes n's signals, should finesse 10
grizz: i can't answer for the robots, i certainly would hook the !cT
grizz: let's go back to signals
bankasor: and play spade 7
grizz: N can now give a very loud signal
grizz: !DA, guaranteeing at least the KQ too
grizz: so you can see a couple things
grizz: 1.  we can hold it to 2 by taking 4!d and a !c
grizz: 2.  we gave a lot of signals, but it didn't do us any good
grizz: and 3. there was no way using standard signals for N to ask for a !d
grizz: alas, 'tis an imperfect world
grizz: and it turns out on this hand that the !d lead would have worked
doldridg: What about !H4 on trick 1?
grizz: good question
grizz: answer is that one card can only give one signal at a time
grizz: can't be both attitude and count, for instance
grizz: or attitude and suit preference
paruljain6->Club: are we only talking about std signals in this lesson?
grizz: assume standard signals for purposes of this session
paruljain6: ok ty
Campus61->Club: I thought on the 1st lead you give preference?
DMMac: why not discourage H after 1st lead?
grizz: and there are only 3 basic signals
grizz: 1.  Attitude, on partner's lead
grizz: 2.  Count, on declarer's lead or by 3rd hand if it can't beat dummy
grizz: and 3. Suit Preference
mercedge: What exactly is "attitude"?
grizz: Attitude is the answer to this implied question by the opening leader - "pard, do you like this suit?  should i continue it later?"
mercedge: Thanks!
grizz: so the answer is either a high card for 'yes', or a low card for 'no'
sharon J->Club: confused on giving count if you can't win.  When would you ever give attitude?
grizz: can everybody see sharon's question?
DMMac: Y
doldridg: y
grizz: ok
mercedge: Y
grizz: you always give attitude on pard's opening lead, unless 1. dummy wins the trick, and 3rd hand then gives count
grizz: 2.  3rd hand must cover a card played by dummy
grizz: and 3rd hand should win the trick, unless there is a good reason not to
barbhow->Club: sometimes dummy wins and u do want suit continued
eubulides: but in this case you already have count, given stayman and 2h.
grizz: true
grizz: and there are 2 possible exceptions to the count rule
grizz: in NT, if dummy wins with the A or K, 3rd hand might still want the suit continued
grizz: so would still give Attitude
grizz: but you must discuss this with partner
grizz: because the general rule is Count If Can't Cover
grizz: another exception is if there is an honor in dummy that 3rd hand finesses against
DMMac: so why was it 6 not 4?
grizz: because N was giving Count
grizz: with the loudest card he could spare
DMMac: pls explain how count works?
grizz: neither the 6 nor 4 was going to take a trick
Campus61: playing the 6 saying he has an odd number left
grizz: and the 6 was unmistakeably high
grizz: the first card of a high-low echo, showing an even number of cards in that suit
DMMac: ty
doldridg: But why give count?  It is plain as day from the bidding.
grizz: when you give count, that is when declarer leads a card, hi-lo shows even
grizz: and lo-hi shows odd
grizz: is it?
bluehi: y
grizz: count all around the table is known at Trick 2?
pzee: east couls have 5!h
grizz: not unless you can see all 4 hands!
doldridg: Yes.  Declarer has 4!H dummy has 2 and I have 3.  That leavesp with 4
grizz: but N and S don't know that E has 4
grizz: oh, from the auction, of course
DMMac: after 1NT opening?
grizz: they have a count on !hs
grizz: but E has 9 other cards
dae: nt bidder COULD have 5
anegada: east could have 5 hearts
grizz: y, that's possible too
grizz: and if so, has only 3!ss
DMMac: not in my system - with 1NT you can't have 5H
grizz: or 2, but not 4
grizz: SAYC allows 1NT with 5332, and a 5M
grizz: so does 2/1
grizz: and BWS
doldridg: Still, using O/E, I'm reading it as SP and leading a !D after I get the lead in !C
grizz: and weak NT 2/1, my favorite system
grizz: we have not talked about O/E, Lavinthal, 3/L, Smith Echo, or lots of other tools
grizz: we will, in time, but let's get the basics down first
frankie22: does count show how many you were dealt or how many left after playing 1?   sorry confused here
doldridg: The GiBs play strong NT 2/1
grizz: does count show how many you were dealt or how many left after playing 1?   sorry confused here
grizz: excellent question
grizz: and BWS says the answer is:
grizz: remaining count
dae: BWS??
grizz: it's easy at Trick 1, initial count and remaining count are the same
grizz: but later in the play, it changes
DMMac->Club: before or after you have played your card?
onoway: but that includes the card you are currently playing, right?
grizz: so you give count as of the moment when you play a card, including that card in the count
grizz: so if you started with 4, and a round has been played already
grizz: then you give a low signal, showing 3 left
frankie22: ok, ty, that makes sense and what i thought
bluehi: what is BWS  please
grizz: BWS is Bridge World Standardhttp://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=bw_standard&f=bwsall.html
grizz: is the first place to look for expert opinion on bidding
grizz: and it calls for Remaining Count, not Original Count
grizz: and is actually easier to remember
grizz: just look at what you have left!
bluehi: tu
bluehi: so from 2nd trick on you give current count
Campus61: play 6 and 3 u have 2 left
dae: that is "remaining" count
dae: if 3 plaY low, if 2 left play top
grizz: exactly
grizz: let me back up and answer a private comment
dae: that is how you lead back,also
grizz: right
grizz: with some caveats
grizz: if you started with 4, lead low, your original 4th best
grizz: to give pard good count
grizz: later in the play, in other suits, lead low from interest, high without
dae: that is the same thing,right?
grizz: right
grizz: back to the private comment
grizz: The matter of 1nt holding 5cards and 1dblt really needs to be sorted out in BIL - pls see my profile - 1nt&1dblt - I have actually been abused in BIL by teachers for opening 1nt with 5cards and 1dblt 
grizz: BIL has a lot of different teachers
grizz: and we all have our own biases
dae: I always do it
grizz: we will never agree on everything
grizz: some do open NT with 5M, others say it's wrong
grizz: and there are a lot of other issues about which we will never agree
grizz: but bridge is a complicated game, there are a lot of ways to approach it
grizz: so we will never get all the BIL teachers to agree about everything
grizz: i know it's confusing for you folks, but it's a fact of life
doldridg: I tend to avoid it with a 5 card major if the suit is good but will sometimes do it with a ratty suit.
grizz: i agree with doldridg
grizz: and have the following understanding with my regular pd:
grizz: we play weak nt, so our range is always 12-14
grizz: we open 5332 with 5M with 12 or 13
grizz: but never 14
grizz: and almost never with a 5422
mercedge: What is 5M?
grizz: 5M=5-card major
grizz: unless it's !s4!h5!d2!c2
trafalgar2: 14 because you can rebid 1nt?
HappyMo: I do sometimes 5422 with 15/17
dae: M is Major m is minor
mercedge: Thanks.
grizz: many hands are easy
grizz: 4333, 4432, and 5332 are balanced
grizz: 5422 and 6322 are semi-balanced, and you must agree with partner whether you can open them 1NT
grizz: and whether a 5332 can have a 5M
trafalgar2: 14 with 5M because you upgrade and can rebid 1nt?
HappyMo: yes grizz . I like modern nt
grizz: i just told you what my guidelines are, but you can all decide those for yourselves  :)
HappyMo: but when doubleton has k or A
grizz: all a matter of personal and partnership style and agreement
HappyMo: yeap
bmr65: couple months with Ricardo....I have improved greatly with him
grizz: yes, Ricardo is a treasure
mercedge: Who is Ricardo, and where can we find him?
bmr65: so sorry grizz I was answering a question
Campus61: is that his BBO name?
grizz: for those of you who don't know, i take a lesson with Ricardo every saturday morning at 10 pacific time, and it's open to kibs
HappyMo: do you know him grizz?
grizz: his nickname is Tenuki
bmr65: He is my husband   you may not have him:)
HappyMo: yesssssssssssss
HappyMo: Tenuki
grizz: rofl    does Fiona know this?   we may have cat fight brewing!
bluehi: that would be what time edt
grizz: 1 est
grizz: and we usually have 40-50 kibs
grizz: i play with Caitlin most of the time
grizz: and we play 2/1 with weak NT
anegada: and he hates nmf
grizz: indeed!
grizz: all of you are invited to kib
grizz: 1 pm Eastern time
Campus61: 10AM PST
mercedge: Thanks.
dae: ok-12 noon ct
grizz: 12 cst
grizz: ok, i'm all bridged out for now
bluehi: yu
Dianne0516: Thanks Pete
onoway: thanks Pete
BILAssist: great lesson!!!   Thanks Grizz
grizz: That concludes today's lesson, and next week we will look at more of same
Campus61: tks Grizz
anegada: ty
ladygolf: thanks for lesson
pzee: thx pete for another great lesson!
doldridg: Thanks Pete
grizz:  If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com.   
BILAssist: And....thanks for the invite Sat morning to kib
boeh: thank you
trafalgar2: ty:)
grizz: Thanks for your interest and participation, and I hope to see you next week.
grizz: Thanks also to Maureen, Rosemary, Fred and the wonderful people at BBO who make this all possible.
HappyMo: tks Pete
grizz: Thanks all for coming, i'll see you in a week
grizz: Bye now