BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's teaching table on DEFENSE is now open in BIL. All members are welcome to attend.!D!D grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense. jewelking: hi grizz Dianne0516: Thanks for coming Grizz ->jewelking: :) grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. I am available for tournaments as well. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. jewelking: ty grizz: Archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page. grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: I encourage participation by all kibs. grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat... grizz: ...since I can't always respond to private chat. grizz: There is a calendar now available on Google for all my scheduled teaching and play dates. grizz: Navigate to Google.com, go to upper left and click "more" grizz: Click "calendar" grizz: Type "grizzbridge" in the search string box, and click tonguedog->Club: night thx grizz: Click on the link and the calendar will open in a new window. wyoming33: :) - grizz: As events get added, deleted or rescheduled, the changes will be shown on the calendar. grizz: The opening lead depends on your defensive strategy - as in chess, you must be thinking several moves ahead. grizz: There are only 5 basic types of defensive strategy at the beginning of a hand. grizz: These concepts are out of the book "How The Experts Win At Bridge" by Burt Hall and Lynn Rose-Hall, the Bridge Book of the Year in 1997. grizz: By way of review, and for those who are new here, the 5 lines of defense are: grizz: 1. Force declarer to ruff, and lose control of his own trump suit. grizz: 2. Active defense, go get your own tricks. grizz: 3. Passive defense, let the lead come to you. grizz: 4. Reduce ruffs. grizz: 5. Create trump tricks. grizz: Again, if you need review on the 5 Lines of Defense check out http://www.grizzbridge.com/Lessons_and_Archives.php grizz: Scroll down the page until you find those lessons under the BIL listings. grizz: Briefly, here are the lead guidelines for each of these different strategies: grizz: 1. Forcing defense - lead your side's strongest suit. grizz: 2. Active defense - also, lead your side's strongest suit. grizz: 3. Passive defense - top of a sequence, or a worthless suit. grizz: 4. Reduce ruffs - lead a trump grizz: 5. Create trump tricks - lead away your own or toward partner's shortness. grizz: So choosing a lead depends on what your defensive game plan is, referring back to the 5 Lines of Defense. grizz: When you know WHAT you intend to accomplish, it is easier to decide HOW to get it done. grizz: That is the difference between strategy and tactics. grizz: This week we are going to continue looking at example hands and auctions, consider defensive plans and choose leads. grizz: These example hands are not predealt, they are random. grizz: So I have not analyzed them, rather we are all looking at them for the first time. grizz: The bidding will be done by the bots, though I must sit in one of the seats during play to control the pace. grizz: I have no idea who the declarer will be or which seat will be on lead, so you may kibitz all 4 hands. grizz: We will put our heads together and come up with a defensive strategy based on the auction, the hand on lead, and the 5 Lines of Defense. grizz: I will try to remember to insert the board numbers in the Chat Log, so you can match up the log with the hands file in the future. grizz: If you wonder what a GIB bid means, click on it - the bots play 2/1. grizz: Here is the GIB convention card: http://online.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_system_notes.php grizz: grizz: ok, here we go grizz: pard bid !cs, so that would seem to be the natural lead - should we do that? or do something else? grizz: here are some clues to this detective problem jewelking: i would grizz: ops did not bid strongly, they rather drifted into game grizz: neither op bid any side suit, so there is probably no risk of a good suit for discards grizz: also, W is strong in all the side suits grizz: so Active Defense is not indicated here JanaDe: is gibN correct? I'd bid J2nt on that hand grizz: there is no reason to think that E is long in !ss, so Forcing Defense won't work grizz: a kib asks: is gibN correct? I'd bid J2nt on that hand grizz: i would too, if pard were not in 3rd seat after 2 passes wyoming33: by a passed hand? alexiss: no jacoby as a passed hand grizz: right, J2NT is off by a passed hand, for a good reason alexiss: you could ask why N didnt open shoka: not 13 HCP grizz: the 3rd hand opener might be subminimum nick3: rdbl ? grizz: 12 hcp, no aces, many would open the N hand, many would not grizz: XX would imply no fit, but there is a better bid available - Jordan 2NT to show a LR+ meshmeshaa: is right ..or wrong ..to open n hand? meshmeshaa: is it shoka: what is Jordan? grizz: depends on many factors dae: jordan 2 NT? grizz: if you play weak NT, then open 1NT dae: Jordan 2 nt? over a double? tcyk: yes! grizz: if your style is light openers, open 1!d grizz: y, Jordan is 2NT over a takeout X to show a LR+ in opener's suit grizz: so XX shows 10+ and no fit, 2NT shows 10+ with fit grizz: any other bid shows less than 10 meshmeshaa: with 4 card fit grizz: y jewelking: what is lr+ please dixie_08: what is LR+ ? grizz: Limit Raise or better jewelking: ty dixie_08: ty grizz: a LR is 10-12 with a fit bizzee: I would have opened the hand using rule of 20. would you? wyoming33: wonder why gib didnt bid Jordan grizz: so since N is a passed hand, it could only be a LR, not any kind of + DougC43: does Jordan promise 4-card support? JanaDe: so both Jordan 2NT and Jacoby 2NT make the same bid? grizz: y - grizz: though i have seen Bob Hamman bid Jordan with only 3, and announce later that pard expected 4 grizz: no grizz: J2NT is by an unpassed hand, showing GF values - 12+ and a fit grizz: Jacoby, that is grizz: Jordan is specifically after a takeout double, and shows LR+ DougC43: so if you have a J2NT-raise kind of hand and opp doubles, what do you bid? grizz: there are some similarities between the two bids, as far as shape and fit are concerned grizz: but Jordan can be 2 points lighter grizz: Jacoby forces to game, and Jordan forces to 3M wyoming33: jordan can be any strength above 10 - no upper limit grizz: right oiseau22: Hi dixie shoka: & how to tell the diff???? grizz: Jordan if op Xes grizz: Jacoby if not dae: can't be more since passed hand tonguedog: What is it RM grizz: 3M = 3 of a Major duffer66: is it the same then as bidding 3 !S? grizz: ok, so why else might N not want to make a strong bid here? jewelking: kq hrts oiseau22: gd to c u Kim grizz: duffer, no - when you play both Jacoby and Jordan, then 3!s is a weaker hand tcyk: trap pzee: lots of !c and !d losers DougC43: if p deals and opens 1M, opp doubles, and I have 14 hcp and four-card support, do i still bid 2nt ? duffer66: thanks grizz grizz: :) grizz: right DougC43: thx zewzew: because of the 3!che has in opps suit grizz: unless you have a good 5-card side suit, which you will bid now and support later DougC43: ok grizz: back to why N might shade his bid a little jewelking: the kq singleton dae: K q don't carry full weight Vesian: why didn't North limit raise to 4 !S with that holding ?? wyoming33: no aces - even distrib jewelking: doubleton tcyk: I thought this was defense helenjon: because S opens in 3rd seat grizz: generally we open good hands in 1st and 2nd seat, playing standard methods grizz: so 3rd seat must sometimes open light to protect pard who may have had to pass almost an opening hand grizz: so the 3rd seat opener might be a bad 12, 11, or even shapely 10 onoway: the OPPS didn't mind ( this was the series following the series with you) I asked them afterward and they both seemed bewildered I would even bring it up zewzew: how light is light? onoway: sorry grizz: so the 3rd seat opener might be a bad 12, 11, or even shapely 10 sjambok: like a "good 10" points grizz: and pard can't get carried away with a good but flat hand like N sjambok: suit count is still needed, however. grizz: y grizz: here is a good 10: grizz: AKT9xx-Axx-void-xxxx grizz: in fact, that is a GREAT 10! DougC43: in fact, 11 lol wyoming33: good 11 grizz: even this is a good 10 zewzew: this is 15 wyoming33: esp with T9 - grizz: AQT9xx-Axx-xx-xx sjambok: in fact, if you replaced the A!h with the K!h, it's a good 10 grizz: y, i goofed on that first one grizz: so what are the elements of a good subminimum hand? Vesian: why no direct bid to 4 grizz: good trump suit grizz: working honors jewelking: spades grizz: shortness grizz: so N must allow for the fact that S might be just 10+ grizz: and not raise directly to 4, for a couple reasons grizz: 1. a jump raise like 1!s-4!s shows a good trump fit but 5-8 hcp or so grizz: that is a preemptive bid, not one you make with 12 hcp grizz: 2. what if opener has extras? maybe you miss slam grizz: if opener expects 5-8 with 5 trumps, but you actually have 12 and 4, missing slam is a distinct possibility grizz: and jamming the auction with 4!s is not only misleading, but it chews up a lot of bidding space grizz: ok, any more questions on the auction? i didn't intend to cover it that extensively, but bidding is fair game for comment too grizz: and i hate to move along when there are questions pending dae: lead trump as no other good lead? grizz: we had already eliminated Forcing and Active as strategies analisals: obviously we need to learn how to bid that grizz: fwiw, here is how i think it should go: sascha3: hi 1star1: can you tell me please what open dbl is? sascha3: :) hi ya - here i am aka aka aka lol grizz: P-P-1S-X-2NT (Jordan)-P-4!c-P-4!s 1star1: west ->sascha3: hiya! 1star1: sorry i see now grizz: open X? wyoming33: south splinters? sel13: TO grizz: y, S auto-splinters opposite the big !s fit grizz: not all would agree with that, but it has merit analisals: even over a passed hand? grizz: the S hand has several upgrades grizz: 6th trump grizz: 2 aces and a T, which are all undervalued in the 4321 system grizz: stiff !c, a huge plus grizz: can't count the 1 for the !cJ, but can count 3 for the stiff once the fit is known grizz: so we have for hcp 4+4+3=11 grizz: stiff !c is 3, so 14 analisals: i more fdor the 6th spade grizz: 1 extra for the 2 aces and 1 T = 15 grizz: and 1 for the 6th !s, so 16 total grizz: and in my proposed auction, the Jordan 2NT shows 10+ grizz: so game is a virtual lock grizz: we are getting away from defense and into the finer points of hand evaluation, but these concepts are important too grizz: ok, back to defense now grizz: we have left to consider - grizz: 3. Passive grizz: 4. Reduce ruffs stefsched: Is Jordan similar to Jacoby 2NT? grizz: 5. Create trump tricks stefsched: ah...weaker, i see ->stefsched: y, scroll up for discussion kyno40: can you just explain with no fit in !s you would redbl. and tell p. no fit in !s but 10 + points grizz: y, exactly dae: yes grizz: if the auction had gone P-P-1!s-X-XX that would show that N has 10+ hcp but no !s fit grizz: since 2NT is available to show 10+ WITH a trump fit grizz: the XX showing no fit is important, because it also suggests that our side might score better by defending than declaring grizz: if opener has good defensive values and only 5!s, he can convert the XX to penalty by passing WVAJuJu: what if N only had 3? Would redouble be appropriate then? Doesn't 2NT promise 4? ArLady: if u play drury can bid 3 diamonds grizz: y, 2NT shows 4, though good players sometimes take liberties with a good 3 stefsched: can you adopt both Jacoby 2NT and Jordan? If so, how would you distinguish them? I guess the weaker Jordan would be used more often WVAJuJu: ty grizz: please, let's have all questions in open chat - i am getting deluged here and can't keep up stefsched: sry, can you adopt both jacoby 2NT and jordan? if so, how would you distinguish them? grizz: most common question is can you play both Jacoby and Jordan, and how can you tell the diff? ArLady: if u play drury couldnt u bid 3 d cause the opener opened in third seat grizz: Jacoby asssumes no takeout X, Jordan assumes the intervening bidder doubles wyoming33: and dont play Jacoby by passed hand grizz: sure, Drury is available by a passed hand grizz: but Jacoby is not Dianne0516: Do you like Drury? grizz: a passed hand is by definition not a game forcing hand grizz: yes, i like several kinds of Drury sabrina 2: can we pls get on to def Dianne0516: Some don't like it grizz: y, it's often forgotten, but valuable when remembered grizz: ok, back to defense dogoronan1: Drury is the second most forgotten convention grizz: lol y, i forgot what the other one is :) lenia1: lol Montana909: what's first--reverse drury? analisals: I would guess Jordan LOL dogoronan1: i forgot leonora3: i would guess the reopening double alexiss: even gib forgot jordan grizz: lol grizz: y, N is really the perfect hand for Jordan dae: we are not playign Bergen here, right? duffer66: yall are getting way over my poor head grizz: right, and Bergen is off by a passed hand too, absent special agreement grizz: ok, let's get back to defense now grizz: here are two important rules of defense grizz: 1. it is a BAD idea to lead an unsupported ace in an unbid side suit vs. a suit contract grizz: unless you have A tight, or Ax, and hope to set up a ruff grizz: 2. it is a WORSE idea to underlead an ace! grizz: so !h and !c are out dae: they don't know what Ace tight IS ifudge: whats tight? grizz: singleton Ace ifudge: ty grizz: you might lead a singleton aces hoping to get a ruff later wyoming33: I like !C - pards suit and dec may be short in the suit dae: and 4th from jack is also bad lead? grizz: but leading either ace from the W hand here is likely to give away a trick grizz: and underleading one is worse grizz: 3. singleton trump leads are almost never right grizz: so that narrows down our search grizz: lol which !d should we plunk down here? duffer66: 2 pzee: !d2 ifudge: j grizz: the "book" says 4th best, which is the 2 JohnnyHiLo: 8 grizz: but there is another rule of defense - if you lead a low spot card, that shows interest in the suit bilmanager (Lobby): => Club: !H!H!H!H!H!H ATTENTION ALL BIL MEMBERS: Jackpot Individual Tournament begins in 40 minutes. Cash Prizes awarded at the end of the month for the cumulative point leaders. Please sign up now!S!S!S!S!S!H!H!H!H!H!C!C!C!C!C!D!D!D!D!D grizz: indicating that you want pard to return the suit if he gets in grizz: but W does'nt want a !d, would much rather pard lead a !h or !c grizz: so johnny is right, the 8 is best - 2nd highest from 4 small grizz: the !c8 is an encouraging signal, showing pard the A grizz: and the !h4 is loudest card W can afford to play grizz: well, there was no magic for the defense on this one grizz: the only 2 tricks they ever get are the two aces wyoming33: I thought when supported pards suit one should lead high kyno40: not relating to this hand leading a singelton trump when bidding goes like 1!s p 4!s is still a bad idea ? grizz: y, given the free 3!c bid the A would not be an awful lead grizz: but if pard has the QJ and S has the K, then what? grizz: kyno, in that auction a singleton trump might be a great idea - sounds like there might be a cross ruff coming up henleyma: yep makes it hard I am taking notes also hope tohelp sascha3: u make everything sound so logical:) grizz: so the trump lead kills one ruff in each hand ->sascha3: lol sometimes it is! sascha3: yep:) grizz: ok, let's get one more hand in wyoming33: and doesnt look like you are going to get any ruffs grizz: right sascha3: 20 pts in east hand - u wouldnt open 2NT? bizzee: would you not have bid 2N on E hand? grizz: y, i would open that one 2NT despite the worthless doubleton grizz: 5!c is a control cue, and slam try grizz: so if W has an Ace or void in a red suit he bids it, or 4!s otherwise Pearls23: looks like in SA you would but not 2/1 - looking at GIB alert analisals: I thot control cues were used only when the bidding hasn't reached game? grizz: control cues are frequently used below game, and can be A, K, stiff or void bilmanager (Lobby): => Club: !S!H!C!D!S!H!C!D ATTENTION ALL BIL MEMBERS: Jackpot Individual Tournament # 1544 begins in 30 min. 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The more you play, the better you play! !S!H!C!D!S!H!C!D dae: can be all way to slam grizz: any control cue above game level must be first round control, either void or Ace grizz: problem here was that EW used a lot of bidding space with the !s jump kyno40: after game is reached cuebid must be Ace ? grizz: and E needs to know about a !d control to have any interest in slam grizz: y, above game a control cue must be either Ace or void - first round control grizz: ok, this one is a no-brainer grizz: only question is which !d to lead wyoming33: right - lead Ps suit grizz: and high from 72 is correct, to show the doubleton wyoming33: nice !Cs:) grizz: E is disappointed that pard did not have a !d control, but they stayed out of a bad slam sjambok: would you lead the high card even if the distribution was K3?? grizz: in pard's bid suit? sure sjambok: if the A were on dummy? grizz: y grizz: especially vs. NT, expecting to clear the suit so when pard gets in he can run his suit grizz: knocking out ops' stopper and unblocking the suit at the same time sjambok: I'm always skeptical of leading a doubleton led by a K, but that's okay in P's suit? sjambok: should P bid... grizz: difficult question to answer in a vacuum, with a general rule sjambok: I've heard the order *should be* lead P's bid suit, or top of a sequence, or top from AK. grizz: since there may be other leads better grizz: again, depends on a lot of other factors grizz: that's why i'm trying to get you all to think strategically, not just tactically sjambok: on how the contract goes is how you play? sjambok: I'm still in the "tactical mode" Lot to digest. grizz: y, there are lots of variables sabrina 2: what is book u mentioned at start re defence grizz: the "book" can tell you what leads to make from certain holdings, but the book didn't hear the auction and can't see dummy sjambok: I have a book by Bill Root.. in fact, 2, but it's not the one he mentions. grizz: These concepts are out of the book "How The Experts Win At Bridge" by Burt Hall and Lynn Rose-Hall, the Bridge Book of the Year in 1997. guyb2: How should bidding go afte a 2NT open grizz: interesting! sjambok: so, I shouldn't automatically go by the same rule, but should look at it more on how the contract goes. grizz: exactly kyno40: 4 !d ? grizz: there is no substitute for using good bridge logic and sound principles wyoming33: vul with probably 6 losers sjambok: have to think outside the box.. that's where teh strategy comes in. grizz: here S must ask himself a question grizz: y, to play well we must think more in chess terms, several moves ahead sascha3: :) grizz: choices here are Pass, 3!d and 4!d grizz: Pass is a huge winner if ops play 3NT grizz: not likely here! sjambok: for sure.. just lead the !D suit and you're home free. sjambok: first dbl :) grizz: and beyond the 7!d tricks, S is not likely to take another trick wyoming33: :) - just stay quiet and hope sascha3: is X by west after a 3!D bid stayman still grizz: so if he bids 4!d, ops X and he is down 3, that is way more than the value of a game the other way dae: lead directing bid? analisals: can think about being vul when considering bidding grizz: vul is wrong for S getting too frisky grizz: even 3!dX-2 if worth more than a game the other way, 500 vs 400, 430 or 460 kyno40: i fully agree but 4 !d takes a lot of bidding space and opps could have slam ? grizz: but down 1 Xed is a winner, so here goes - grizz: how likely are ops to have a slam when they have max 28 hcp between them? grizz: even if pard is broke, slam is a longshot sascha3: not likely - but could happen in a suit contract wyoming33: suit slam is quite possible riondel: all it takes is a dia void by e w 30 point hand bilmanager (Lobby): => Club: !S!H!C!D!S!H!C!D ATTENTION ALL BIL MEMBERS: Jackpot Individual Tournament # 1544 begins in 15 min. 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Practice your new conventions !S!H!C!D!S!H!C!D grizz: y, possible but unlikely grizz: true grizz: in any case, 3!d puts the EW bidding methods to the test sascha3: y analisals: gamble sascha3: so is X by west stayman here? kyno40: i found most of the time if i have 7 card suit opps has a long suit aswell grizz: cuebid as Stayman is not available, since it forces to the 4 level and bypasses 3NT wyoming33: does put west in bind grizz: so the best W can do here is X to show "cards" and no specific shape, but enough values to bid grizz: i like 4!d here to show both majors, and let pard choose dae: no neg doubles opp NT bid grizz: hope that pard has a 4 card major wyoming33: yes - gd grizz: if not, W's 4NT would be to play grizz: but could not be made without a !d stop grizz: since E denied a !d stop already grizz: well, same contract but more adventures in bidding! bilmanager (Lobby): => Club: !S!H!C!D!S!H!C!D ATTENTION ALL BIL MEMBERS: Jackpot Individual Tournament # 1544 begins in 10 min. Please sign up for the friendliest tournament on BBO. Play in a leisurely atmosphere with lots of fun people from all over the world! Make new friends! Cash prizes awarded at the end of the month to the cumulative high scorers !S!H!C!D!S!H!C!D analisals: how did E deny a stopper in diamonds? grizz: W showed "cards", so E would bid 3NT with a !d stopper analisals: oh yah! grizz: more bridge logic :) guyb2: Did west deny diamond stop by doubling rather than 3NT? analisals: I ain't got none yet!:) grizz: hard to say in this auction, but i would think so grizz: i would guess that very few pairs have any agreement about what happens in this auction wyoming33: tough after that preempt kyno40: i thought 3 !d x is transfer to !h grizz: that is one possible agreement grizz: but BWS does not address this auction janeccrn: I hate to interupt the lesson, --- BIL members can sign up for the BIL Individual tournment that begins in 7 min by clicking the tourney button to the bottom right of the screen. ... janeccrn: #1544. I am hoping that some of the 50 folks at this lesson will sign up. grizz: Do we have any final questions? grizz: That concludes today's lesson, and next week we will have more quiz hands on opening leads. grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. grizz: Thanks also to Maureen, Rosemary, Eileen, Fred and the wonderful people at BBO who make this all possible. grizz: Thanks all for coming, i'll see you next week. sascha3: thx Pete was great:) grizz: Bye now. onoway: thanks Pete wyoming33: thank you Pete sascha3: bye