Chat log of Bridge Base Online session for grizz starting at: Sat Jan 03 14:28:10 2009 ->grizz: Account Balance: BB $3.25 MB $10.77 OliverC: ok, nice try up to that point ranisyam: so the bidding is ok OliverC: The bidding was alright OliverC: Not sure what the Double over 3!D meant to be :) Beefeater: hi ranisyam: i got a clue that shows s suit OliverC: The initial double of 2!H was just negative, showing 4-card Spades and was OliverC: essentially a takeout of hearts ->OliverC: hi, need more time? ->Beefeater: hiya! OliverC: no stopping in a minute ->OliverC: thx ->OliverC: and HNY OliverC: you too, Pete BILManager (Lobby): => Club: !D!DGrizz's teaching table on DEFENSE is now open in the BIL. All members are invited to attend.!D!D . grizz: i everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense. Dianne0516: Thanks for coming :) ->Dianne0516: and thx for playing at the Marathon :) cards4me2: hello grizz: Hi everybody, thanks for attending another of a series of lessons on Defense. grizz: Chat logs and hand records are stored in your computer for later review. For information on how to retrieve them, go the BIL homepage or email me. grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. I am available for tournaments as well. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. Dianne0516: My pleasure--Been telling every I got to play with you several hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 grizz: Archives of old sessions are available at GrizzBridge.com, on the Lessons and Archives page. ->Dianne0516: :) grizz: These sessions have been updated recently, so check out what's new at GrizzBridge.com grizz: There will be lots of questions. I want to address them all, but in a manner helpful to all, so please ask them in open chat. grizz: I encourage participation by all kibs. grizz: So jump right in with a comment, question, or bid at any time, but please do it in open chat... grizz: ...since I can't always respond to private chat. grizz: This week we are going to continue looking at example hands and auctions, consider defensive plans and choose leads. grizz: These example hands are not predealt, they are random. grizz: So I have not analyzed them, rather we are all looking at them for the first time. grizz: The bidding will be done by the bots, though I must sit in one of the seats during play to control the pace. grizz: I have no idea who the declarer will be or which seat will be on lead, so you may kibitz all 4 hands. grizz: We will put our heads together and come up with a defensive strategy based on the auction, the hand on lead, and the 5 Lines of Defense. grizz: If you wonder what a GIB bid means, click on it - the bots play 2/1. grizz: Here is the GIB convention card: http://online.bridgebase.com/doc/gib_system_notes.php grizz: isabable: hi pete i come of nights from july finally this year are you continuing these lessons or do you begin to repeat as i missed most ty k ->isabable: hiya! random hands every week isabable: ok tys grizz: interesting hand here! anco: . ranisyam: what is 2h here grizz: natural toucanish: suicidal cards4me2: lol wyoming33: LOL grizz: y, won't work out well Merryonion: my question also grizz: the X from W was ill-advised joseye: why did you not respond to 1!S by partner? wyoming33: X by west not very good Dianne0516: Sup-x by you here? grizz: why not 2!s? grizz: pard is a passed hand, so it's unlikely that we have game here JohnnyHiLo: have you downloaded the new version of gib? the bidding is supposedly improved btsplk: or 1nt? nfmfl: nf and you have min opening w/o gr8 support grizz: i'm not opposed to playing 7 card fits, but i don't go actively seeking them ranisyam: overcall with only 4cards by n wyoming33: how about penalty X by south:) toucanish: INT no good with no !D stop, right? grizz: y, 1!s by responder promises only 4+ Chili660: good pass nfmfl: not an overcall..dbl would promise both 4cMs (negative), correct? grizz: and NT is a bad choice with Qx grizz: in ops' suit grizz: so i was going to compete to 2!s if necessary, but chose not to when ops landed in a bad 2!h contract grizz: There have been a lot of dropouts today, so if I disappear without notice please rejoin me here. leonora3: better score defending Merryonion: pls explain 2h by east. grizz: y, we really don't have a fit antonio37: is it defense or biding class?? :) cards4me2: both of his four card suits had already been bid grizz: y grizz: a little of both, but i try to answer all questions zewzew: and so he jumps into the well? theagmha: why bid hearts by E as pass before 2 D would be better grizz: the X by W forces the issue for E - grizz: 1!sX is not going to work well for EW brysteiner: with 1!c being an artificial bid, is 2!c also a reasonable bid by E? Merryonion: ok thx. forgot about the forcing X grizz: so E is forced to bid, and 2!h was the best of bad bids available to E wyoming33: wd you have doubled with the W hand? dae: nt? brysteiner: yes, or 1NT. showing stoppers in bid suits grizz: 1NT certainly has some arguments for it grizz: btw, bidding 3 card suits even in response to Xes rarely works grizz: anyway, now for the defense grizz: in part score hands, the usual source of extra tricks for ops is ruffs toucanish: K from KQJT would be favorite if they weren't trumps grizz: so let's start killing them grizz: ok, now we see dummy. shall we continue killing ruffs, or is there some other threat more important? JohnnyHiLo: this is fred's idea of improved bidding? ->JohnnyHiLo: lol Dianne0516: Keep off board wyoming33: get tricks before they disappear on !Ds grizz: a couple thoughts now that we see dummy grizz: the !d suit is certainly a threat cards4me2: I see 7 easy tricks for defense grizz: E will be able to ruff in the closed hand to set up the suit, if necessary grizz: and pitch losers too grizz: nice to know that pard has the !hA toucanish: can you be sure? grizz: not 100%, but pretty good odds grizz: so let's kill some more !d ruffs in the closed hand grizz: not bad, +100 on a part score hand that makes only 1!s dae: was D discard a signal? by N grizz: losing 2!s, 2!d and 2!c grizz: maybe only 1!c grizz: should S double this one? grizz: with 4 pretty sure tricks in hand? Dianne0516: x by me would be sup-x btsplk: AVOID X PARTIALS ,right grizz: X in this auction would not be support dae: e didn't bid so can't support double grizz: y Dianne0516: x by south? grizz: some big penalties can be collected on partials, so i wouldn't rule that out grizz: but S would not want ops to run to a better contract grizz: such as 3!d grizz: besides, N has a much better hand here than he otherwise might grizz: and 2!h could make with overtricks zewzew: how? Dianne0516: I would appreciate it if you wouldnt IM me in private the answers in a lesson. I would like the teachers openion, not yours ->Dianne0516: i don't mind questions in the open, keeps things interesting :) Dianne0516: NO--dae always answers questions via IM in all teaching sessions, and I can't stand it==nobody else can either grizz: if for instance the !s suits in N and E were switched, the auction would be the same but the result different grizz: no overtricks, but 2!h makes then loubel: ? east's 2!H? (1nt ?) grizz: and if W had a stiff !c, then it makes 3 Merryonion: should E have bid 1nt after the forcing dble? toucanish: I'd have done that grizz: if i were playing the E hand, i think 1NT would look better than 2!h Merryonion: ty loubel: :) grizz: one more comment about the possible X of 2!h grizz: if you X, you give info to the ops grizz: might be just enough info to let them make the dumb contract! grizz: and especially at imps, you must expect to put a doubled contract down 2 tricks, not just 1 grizz: the upside for down only 1 is only an extra 50 or 100, depending on vul zewzew: i think 2!h woul be a good contract for NS grizz: but the downside for doubling ops into game is dire grizz: 6 card fits are awful in suit contracts, but the sheer strength in !hs here makes it palatable grizz: any other thoughts before we move on? grizz: grizz: ugh, what a terrible hand to lead from grizz: normally i would lead a !s here, but it's pretty clear from the auction that W has !ss grizz: and E obviously has !hs grizz: but E obviously does NOT have !s, only 2 or 34 grizz: 2 or 3 grizz: so pard has 3 or 2 grizz: and NT bidders frequently have undisclosed long minors, so minor leads can be bad grizz: so after going over all the possibilites, i think we come back to !s wyoming33: Gib didnt play that very well grizz: nope, that one should make overtricks toucanish: no shoul;d make 11? alexiss: dont you know from p's play of the K in 1.trick that S must have the spade Q? grizz: should make at least 10 tricks, losing max. a !s, !h and !c grizz: y grizz: so E should hook S for it wyoming33: mst likely - though north could false card grizz: pitch losing !cs on good !ss in dummy wyoming33: but nothing to lose grizz: y, stoppers in the other suits and no entry problems grizz: lol i wish the bots played this badly in the Robot Races :) tekereq: AGREE!!!!! wyoming33: if its your pard they do grizz: lol y!!! grizz: but as ops they can be deadly grizz: any thoughts on this hand? grizz: grizz: doesn't look like we will be defending this one, so let's reday grizz: redeal grizz: N is a passed hand, so 2NT here is not Jacoby grizz: it's 11-12, invitational to game grizz: if the !h suit were a little chunkier, i might accept grizz: as to whether to pass or correct to 3!h, that depends to some extent on the form of scoring grizz: 3!h is probably safer at imps grizz: but 2NT scores better at matchpoints grizz: so let's assume MPs here leonora3: :) Beefeater: did you also notice how she reacted to my suggestions as to how she may open the file, with reference to file sizes etc.....I was amazed how illiterate she is/was Beefeater: sorry wrong person Grizz :) ->Beefeater: np grizz: lol great MP score! grizz: but wrong to accept the inv. with the S hand here wyoming33: everyone else in game:) grizz: maybe, but the rookies who find game here will be giving us a lot of tops on other boards :) Dianne0516: I wouldn't bid game with ptnr a passed hand grizz: heck no! S is a subminimum grizz: the clue that NT in N might be a good contract is the weak !ss in S, and side aces hope: In museum bridge 2 1/2 Quick trick was a good opener :) My Mum loved it grizz: the aces are both stoppers in ops' suits and entries to the !hs wyoming33: course if !H A in west be different ->hope: :) chula5: with that rule of 17 it works to bid game grizz: y, favorable !h split too grizz: this hand could be cashing 0!hs! wyoming33: and !Ds favorable wanda21: Wow what an incredible voice....a little like Celina Dion...thanks.....so much!H grizz: any other thoughts on this one? sound3675: true but NT all about HCPs tooooooooo risky else grizz: not all that risky, N has 11-12 for that bid so we have 21-22 between the hands, and the nice long !h suit wanda21: sorry ->wanda21: np :) grizz: at MPs anyway wyoming33: and 2 good entries grizz: 2NT is likely to score better than !hs grizz: but at imps, pulling to 3!h is almost mandatory grizz: those little !hs WILL take tricks if !h is trump sound3675: yes sorry I meant game grizz: ArLady: hi there ->ArLady: :) grizz: let's skip ahead to a defense hand ArLady: hey ArLady: hey ArLady: sorry grizz: strategy question here toucanish: trump lead would be favorite on the bidding :) grizz: ops have bid strongly to game grizz: so what should our strategy be? isabable: cash t grizz: generally that is a case for Active defense grizz: dummy has a good suit, will usually be able to pitch losers on it after trumps are gone sharon J: so i've been told. :) ginger_321: hi ya:) i cant get in here anymore as sascha lol grizz: which means we should find and cash our side suit winners early wyoming33: P must have some trump - ->ginger_321: hiya! grizz: oh yes! pard certainly has some trump grizz: maybe as many as E grizz: so pard might have some shortness grizz: question is, should we give pard ruffs? grizz: or do something different? grizz: when pard could have long trumps, then we should think hard about Forcing Defense ramseygf: if E by the bidding has 5 5 in the majors therefore only 3 cards for minors, why not take your ace D zewzew: i think W should have bid 3nt brysteiner: start A!d and get a look at dummy grizz: ok, good thinking, but think a little more - grizz: what if E is void in !ds? grizz: then the A catches air and gets ruffed, setting up pitches :( grizz: !h lead? not very appetizing - dummy is short and can ruff brysteiner: the other option is !c. knowing E has plenty and partner is short grizz: !c? and set up dummy's suit? also a bad idea wyoming33: want to pass:) grizz: so we don't have any GOOD leads, we need to attack it the other way - pzee: all of the leads have problems... grizz: find the best of the BAD ones grizz: and i think we come back full circle to the bad !DA lead :) ginger_321: i think i would have lead club:( grizz: hope that E is not void, and for the next lead we will have more info grizz: obviously a !d continuation is wrong here, so pard's card SHOULD be Suit Preference ginger_321: lol good lesson in not to X even with 5 trumps ->ginger_321: :) grizz: lol i sure didn't think this one would make! wyoming33: shd gib lead back a !S - I didnt check DD- did anyone to see ifit shd make grizz: somebody asked what Forcing Defense was grizz: Forcing can work if either defender has 4+ trumps grizz: if we can force declarer to ruff in the hand with long trumps grizz: we reduce his trump length while saving our own grizz: eventually he runs out, and we run the table at the end grizz: if Forcing is to work, we must lead our best suit and hope we can force declarer to ruff grizz: problem is, what is our best suit here? grizz: !ds, but leading !ds just gives away pitches grizz: so some of the conditions were right for Forcing, but not all grizz: if NS have either or both of the !d honors in dummy, then Forcing probably works grizz: and if Forcing has a chance to work, then we don't want to give ruffs to pard bbo_iac (Lobby): => Club: Grizz returns to IAC tonight and his session on the bidding play and defense of random hands starts in anout 50 minutes. All are welcome to participate zewzew: cud u pls make that clearer grizz: let me say that another way grizz: if Forcing Defense CAN work, then we want the defense hand with the long trumps to keep them as long as possible BILmanager (Lobby): => Club: !D!c!d Calling BILlies! BEGINNERS and INTERMEDIATES, T #1150 Ind.BIL Jackpot Tournament, restricted to your level, starts in 20 minutes !h WIN BBO Masterpoints and start collecting BIL jackpot points grizz: they will be most valuable at the end of the hand, when declarer doesn't have any more - having been forced to ruff our best suit grizz: so if conditions are right for Forcing Defense, then we do not want to shorten pard in trump with ruffs grizz: and if presented with an opportunity for a ruff, the long defender trump hand should refuse to ruff grizz: would any other lead have worked out better here? brysteiner: 8!h? brysteiner: looks it, but not sure how it works out... ginger_321: dont like !H but would like to see the 8!C grizz: underleading kings is one of those things we learned as beginners that we should avoid ginger_321: but i think that just gives him a diamond pitch on the club grizz: but later on we learn that it's not such a bad thing after all brysteiner: yes, but still looks better after seeing the lay of the cards grizz: but when RHO has bid the suit, and LHO has not supported it, underleading a K is a terrible idea grizz: or if pard has not bid or implied the suit, and RHO has bid NT, underleading a K is also a terrible idea grizz: so i would never lead a !h on this auction grizz: leading the !DA was bad, but underleading the A would be worse Juiceplus: how about top of nothing? grizz: so the only other lead i would consider here would be a big !c grizz: Do we have any final questions? grizz: That concludes today's lesson, and next week we will have more quiz hands on opening leads. grizz: If anybody needs help retrieving the hand records or chat log, please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. zewzew: thank you very much hope: Tks y wonderful grizz: I teach private individual, pair, and small group lessons. If you would like to know more please email me at Grizz@GrizzBridge.com. ginger_321: ths Pete:) great lesson Juiceplus: so you still play the acw iven though you dont have the King? Dianne0516: Thanks for coming Grizz :) grizz: Thanks also to Maureen, Rosemary, Eileen, Fred and the wonderful people at BBO who make this all possible. grizz: Thanks all for coming, i'll see you next week. ladygolf: thanks Pete cdt: Thanks Pete :) grizz: And Happy New Year to everybody! grizz: Bye now. ginger_321: :) ginger_321: bye