grizz->Club: club2over1 (Lobby): => Club: Grizz lesson taking place in the club now. All welcome to attend. grizz->Lobby: club2over1 (Lobby): => Club: Grizz lesson taking place in the club now. All welcome to attend. grizz: hi all and wlc Dianne0516: Hi Pete :) anegada: hi :) grizz: hmm, we usually have a few more kibs - must be a great football game on tv timkin: Hello Dianne0516: We have our priorities straight :) grizz->Lobby: club2over1 (Lobby): Grizz lesson taking place in the club now. All welcome to attend. anegada: if my mentor shows up will be leaving in a hurry cc1313: maybe they don't advertise enough? grizz: that was my job today :( cc1313: rona did one 30 min ago :) grizz: that was me in drag, it's 2:30 am for her and she gave me the password :) cc1313: lollllllll anegada: lol grizz: well, we have a small session today, are there any special requests? anegada: nmf ?? grizz: we have a request for New Minor Forcing, is that OK with everybody? Dianne0516: y bluehi: y Elena4: y anegada: is it necessary tenuki says no timkin: y cc1313: after tenuki today??? u be in a heap of trouble grizz: ok,give your dj a minute to poke around in the stack of wax at the back of the racks grizz: hmm i can't seem to find any hands on NMF grizz: but i'll describe it anyway cc1313: we'll take anything u want to share bluehi: will send you some later ;-) anegada: anything helps grizz: in an auction that goes 1!c-1!h-1NT for instance ->bluehi: :) whiz: hey there i dont see any board right grizz: if responder has 5!hs, and needs to know whether opener has 3 bluehi: when pard over call at the 1 level or 2 level bluehi: ok grizz: then responder bids 2!d, the New Minor grizz: to announce that fact bluehi: i can send now grizz: playing basic NMF, opener's duty is to bid !h with 3 of them ->bluehi: thx, might be useful later, but i can't do it in real time grizz: or 2NT without bluehi: sent ->bluehi: tx :) grizz: i don't have an example hand, but maybe one will come up at random Dianne0516: If contract is asking about spades, is responder's priority to bid 3 !h w 3 of them, or 2 !s with 4 !h? Dianne0516: Sorry 3 !s w 3, or 2 !h with 4? timkin: may I mention my pref -- 2C is CB stayman alway? grizz: if the question is about !s, then opener must support !s with 3 club2over1->Club: Grizz now teaching in club all welcome grizz: there are variants that check back for the other major too grizz: but again i have no example hands, so let's proceed with random hands and discuss bidding, play and defense grizz: how many of you would open the N hand? grizz: good grizz: that's a terrible opener cc1313: y grizz: only 7 losers jaf1935: not me iäll not open maysie: Y grizz: but no convenient rebid unless pd bids !s gillyfleur: not vul prob 1!H onoway: in 3rd seat I would grizz: or supports !h grizz: suit quality is terrible jaf1935: that äs something else grizz: decision time grizz: X? 1!h? trafalgar2: X grizz: 2!c? anegada: 1h grizz: first let's rule out 2!c Michaels, there is not enough shape here maysie: X timkin: X jaf1935: x grizz: if the hand were 5431, i would X grizz: but i don't want to give up on a !s fit here grizz: and if pard has enough points to squeak and a !s suit, we find it anyway grizz: with 4441 X stands out grizz: with 5-4 in the majors, some judgment is required grizz: with 5431, if pard has !hs we are on the 3 level Dianne0516: spades, hearts reversed, x? jaf1935: Is a 5-2 fit better than 4-3 fit?? timkin: I wd be very unhappy with yr bid if I am leading h in NT grizz: but with 4531 we can find the !s fit at the 2 level, if there is one grizz: if i have a choice of a 5-2 or 4-3 fit, then 5-2 wins hands-down jaf1935: thanks !h grizz: showing 4!s grizz: W intended to bid 2NT anyway, and this auction has not talked him out of it grizz: and E has an easy raise to game opposite 18-19 grizz: is there any question about another leads? jaf1935: for nt it is rt grizz: S's first duty is to give Attitude signal grizz: and i guess we should assume standard signals grizz: here's a common position grizz: and a fortunate lie of the cards grizz: W is going to take the !c hook at some point grizz: when you have the AK, it doesn't hurt a thing to try to pick up a singleton honor first grizz: aha! grizz: S gives count on W's lead, big card being first of hi-lo echo, showing an even number grizz: when signalling, use the loudest card you can afford grizz: excepting honors grizz: so the 8 would have denied the 9 grizz: what the heck, the J may have been stiff grizz: even if it wasn't, N is the safe hand to lose to grizz: small !h tells S NOT to continue !hs if he gets in grizz: no drama on the hand grizz: but no overtricks either grizz: any questions on bid, play or defense? jdhilts: yes grizz: fire away jdhilts: eat x on 1 heart what was that with 7 points showing weak hearts ? grizz: y jdhilts: east Dianne0516: Can you end-play north with heart? grizz: y, in either red suit grizz: let's do it again grizz: good catch bmr65 (Lobby): I'm afraid to watch you now :( ->bmr65: rofl ->bmr65: c'mon over maysie: try with X pls? grizz: no difference, it appears grizz: except that now W knows that N has most of the power jdhilts: :) I got to learn these signals grizz: during the play, there are 3 types of basic signals: grizz: 1. Attitude, on pard's lead grizz: 2. Count, on declarer's lead grizz: 3. Suit Preference, in certain cases where the other 2 don't apply cc1313: can u show attitude AND suit pref same time? grizz: not in standard methods cc1313: like I don't want this suit play this one grizz: it must be only one of the 3 cc1313: oh grizz: you can't show both attitude and suit preference cc1313: the reason then for udca? grizz: though there are certain non-standard conventions that allow you to do that grizz: let's talk about Lavinthal timkin: acbl legal ? grizz: and use it on all hands today grizz: sure grizz: using Lavinthal discards, your first discard is a suit you do NOT want back, and the size of the card shows suit preference between the other 2 grizz: remind me later jdhilts: gees I really have a lot to learn I play basic sayc :) grizz: that was the endplay card grizz: hoping that N would lead !s away from the A grizz: but N has seen that trick before, and takes himself right off the hook Dianne0516: :) grizz: good thought though grizz: :) anegada: excellent grizz: assume that 2!h is natural grizz: now Lebensohl kicks in trafalgar2: instead of playing !h, !d to A and small !d, but N must play K!d for S to get in grizz: 2!s is natural and nonforcing grizz: even with bad 4333 shape, i think E should raise here, white vs. red grizz: decision time for S Dianne0516: Good, thanks :) grizz: with doubleton !h, !s raise is not totally safe, but should be ok grizz: but remember, in a NT auction responder is captain of the partnership grizz: and has a better idea of the total partnership assets than opener grizz: so it's also defensible to pass it around and see what happens grizz: but grizz: N doesn't know about the good !s support and !h shortness grizz: so it's a coin flip between pass and 3!s bmr65: In 2/1 is spades Xfer to !C's grizz: not over an overcall, in standard methods grizz: most folks play their NT system on over X, Lebensohl over interference grizz: S must consider something else here grizz: since if N had an invitational hand with !s, the auction would have been different: 1NT-2H-2NT*-P-3C*-P-3S jaf1935: Lebensohl?? grizz: right grizz: if N has another Q or so, he would bid this way grizz: since he didn't, S knows that he doesn't have that kind of power grizz: using Lebensohl, you can distinguish between drop-dead bids and GF bids grizz: and sometimes between invitational bids too, depending on what suit the interference is grizz: 2!s is natural and NF grizz: and since N might be broke, and we are red vs white, pass is prudent grizz: what do you think, gang? should N X this one? anegada: no grizz: not unless he thinks we can set it 2 tricks bmr65: I'm chicken here not enough defensive tricks grizz: because a 1 trick set gambles 50 pts vs. a doubled game bonus - 470 NV, or 670 vul, and more for overtricks grizz: cost / benefit ratio does not pencil out grizz: no !s support in S, so the lead doesn't look so good grizz: but N does have trump control, and if S has a doubleton !S might give him a ruff grizz: how should we play this trump suit? grizz: i vote for safety play grizz: turns out we do set it by 2 tricks, does that mean that N should have Xed? grizz: answer: no grizz: doesn't change the cost/benefit calculation grizz: S should never double grizz: since N might have something like Jxxxx-xxx-xxx-xx grizz: give N another 1 or 2 points, and X stands out grizz: game is unlikely, but set is likely to be 2 tricks grizz: at any rate, it is responder's decision whether to pass or X grizz: opener should not take it out of responder's hands bmr65: ok I'll remember grizz: notice that NS do not know how strong W is grizz: give W the !KQ, and it rolls grizz: yes, the issue of captaincy should always be on your mind in a NT auction grizz: as opener you have the strongest hand, but partner has the controls of the ship grizz: and especially here, where the overcaller sits behind the NT bidder, it's really dangerous for S to X grizz: since all the Ks might be behind him grizz: any more questions on this one? jdhilts: yes grizz: ok, go anegada: what do u mean when u say hook a club grizz: hook is another name for a finesse bluehi: tu Dianne0516: Thanks Pete jaf1935: yes the lebensohl would bring 3 !s part game grizz: right, but would only be bid like that if N had 8 or a bad 9 jdhilts: like I asked if you open best minor does it change the bidding anegada: ty jaf1935: was this also makable grizz: loses 2!s, a !h and a !c grizz: making 3 bluehi: do u need 6sp to do leb grizz: no, 5 is plenty grizz: 140 vs 100 for setting it 2 jaf1935: then lebensohl good def bid jdhilts: ty :0 grizz: yes jdhilts: :) cc1313: thx night bluehi: then whyy didn't u do that grizz: and if S had guessed to bid 3!S, would be a big winner grizz: cost/benefit analysis grizz: if 3!h goes down 1 or 2, we get 50 or 100 grizz: if we bid 3 and go down 1, it's -100 bluehi: k grizz: so 3!s could change a plus to a minus grizz: and n showed a weak hand with 2!S bluehi: k bluehi: tu bluehi: nigth grizz: did i miss another question? jaf1935: thanks nite all grizz: guess not, so i'll see you next week grizz: thx all, and bye