grizz: hi Pedro!  sry to be late
grizz: is there something you would like to work on?
PedroG: hummm
PedroG: would u mind if we did random
PedroG: and see what we get
grizz: random hands?   here's doozie
PedroG: :)
gillyfleur: greetings Pedro and Pete! ok to kib for a while please?
PedroG: yes for me :)
grizz: be our guest  :)
gillyfleur: ty pete guess you are 100% now?
->gillyfleur: more like 50%, but that's a huge improvement
Dianne0516: You are inv
grizz: hmm
PedroG: dbl
grizz: that seems to be an inscrutably conservative bid!
PedroG: or 4
grizz: y
grizz: pd is a passed hand, and ops surely have a fit if you give them time to find it
PedroG: can't miss slam cause passed hand
grizz: so jam the auction, and it's a 2-way bid
grizz: you expect it to make
grizz: but if not, then it's an advance save
PedroG: 3 1/2 losers
grizz: and if ops have a !h fit, they must explore on the 5 level
grizz: y, the other possibility is X and then bid !s, but the X doesn't chew up any bidding space
grizz: if pd were an UPH, then X has some merit
grizz: but with pd already passing, slam is pretty much out of the question
PedroG: ok
grizz: X is now a cooperative double
grizz: E may pass or pull it, depending on best judgment
PedroG: what does it show?
PedroG: ok
grizz: shows 'cards' - probably 8+
grizz: tends to show !hs too
grizz: though it's not strictly penalty, and not strictly takeout - hence 'cooperative
PedroG: oki
grizz: E is really on the spot here
grizz: since W is an UPH
grizz: your play, amigo
PedroG: having 4 losers
grizz: unfortunately, no squeeze works here
grizz: since you have no transportation to the threat cards in dummy
PedroG: two loser can't squeeze right?
grizz: so the only hope to make it is to play off !s, and hope for misdefense
grizz: maybe the A and K!C are in different hands, and they each pitch down to it
PedroG: remote chance
grizz: y, but any chance is better than giving up   :)
PedroG: :)
PedroG: wd
grizz: let's play it again, with a 1!s overcall
PedroG: ok
PedroG: negative on this
grizz: y
grizz: now they have found their !h fit
PedroG: :)
grizz: and W knows that E is on a minimum
grizz: so ops are much better prepared to decide whether to pass, X or compete
PedroG: yes
grizz: if you X, then W XXes
grizz: for the same probable result
grizz: playing in !hs, ops lose 1!s
grizz: 1!h
grizz: 1!d
grizz: and no !c
grizz: making 4
grizz: so 4!s off one, even Xed, is a good result
grizz: W has read the book on the Law of Total Tricks, so is not tempted to bid 5!h here
grizz: the question is whether to X or pass
PedroG: yes and my intention was always to play 4!s so why not bid it right away
grizz: exactly
grizz: deprive ops of the extra information they get with another round of bidding
grizz: W's calculation is simple
grizz: LOTT says they don't make 5!hs
grizz: E should have 1.5 or 2 quick defensive tricks
grizz: and W has 2!c tricks
grizz: so 4!s should go set
grizz: and is probably their last chance for a plus score
PedroG: E must have that for the opening bid right
grizz: right, especially in 1st or 2nd seat
grizz: notice that if you reverse the minor suits in your hand, it makes
grizz: it's that close, even though pd is almost broke
grizz: ready for another?
PedroG: yes very close, I never thought I would go down :)
PedroG: yes
grizz: i always forget to save the hands!
PedroG: just a small info to everyone
PedroG: even if the teacher doesn't claim the hands are still there, just not in proper format
PedroG: :)
bluehi: k
grizz: y?   you must show me how to recover them
PedroG: u like that info don't u Pete :)
PedroG: we will test this better
grizz: ok
grizz: the book says that N should bid 3NT here
grizz: showing only 5!hs
grizz: and maybe he should, but with the stiff !s that could be very dangerous
PedroG: ok
grizz: so N bends the rules just a little   :)
PedroG: losing !H, !S, !d
grizz: y, easy make
PedroG: hopefully
grizz: lose only 3 aces
grizz: how does it do in NT?
grizz: assuming a !s lead?
PedroG: bad
grizz: down several
PedroG: because I have to lose the lead 3 times
grizz: on this hand, S would have pulled 3NT
PedroG: and only one stopper in !s
grizz: with good 3 card !h support and doubleton !s
PedroG: not many controls
grizz: but notice that S would NOT pull with 3235 shape
grizz: and same bad result in NT here
grizz: so N's 'operating' worked on this hand
grizz: but be prepared for criticism if it doesn't
PedroG: yes
PedroG: :)
grizz: like so many things in bridge, there are no guarantees   :)
PedroG: well garantee some FUN
grizz: :)
grizz: and that's the most important thing, after all
PedroG: Yep
grizz: yecchhh
grizz: 6 hcp and an ace, but count the losers!
PedroG: :)
grizz: 2!s
grizz: 3!h
grizz: 3!d
grizz: and 3!c
grizz: 11 losers
PedroG: :)
grizz: no ruffing value in the short !s hand
PedroG: can't have more than that
grizz: and !s suit too weak for dummy reversal
grizz: typical minimum responder hand has only 9 losers, and that is what pd can count on
grizz: now things are looking better
grizz: N has only max of 4 cards in the minors
grizz: maybe less
grizz: so you have a double fit
PedroG: 5/4 or 5/5
grizz: y
grizz: so now the question is:  2!s or 3!s?
PedroG: my hand didn't improve that much 
grizz: some random thoughts
grizz: the 2!h free bid suggests extra values, and/or extra shape
grizz: vul is favorable
grizz: W is a passed hand, and E has not squeaked
grizz: i would be tempted to bid 3!s with the S cards, but that could be totally wrong
grizz: that was reckless
grizz: N should bid only 3
PedroG: !s, !c, 2!d
grizz: though if you had bid 2!s right away, N would blast to 4
panim: or pass
Dianne0516: slap north's hand :)
grizz: and you have an easy pass
grizz: and you probably have a top board here
PedroG: if I bid 3 north will bid 4
grizz: because most Ss will respond 2!s
grizz: and pd will blast to game
grizz: off 1
grizz: but your 11 losers suggested passing first round, which slows down the auction just enough
PedroG: bad shape hand
grizz: right, i often subtract a point for 4333 shape
grizz: in fact, even if you have 4!s you should think twice about responding 2!s
grizz: i will fudge one loser sometimes, but almost never 2
PedroG: yep no ruffing power whatsoever
grizz: ready for another?
PedroG: :) yes
PedroG: u giving me exception today :)
grizz: E would actually bid here, but he's going to pass so we can see another good concept at work
grizz: :)
grizz: 1NT is only semi-forcing here
PedroG: I'm here more thinking what is the exception :)
grizz: lol
grizz: unfortunate result
grizz: but i wanted to show you something
PedroG: difficult to play
grizz: suppose one of your little !hs is a !s?
grizz: 4522, otherwise the same
grizz: if 1NT is forcing, what do you bid after 1!h-1NT?
PedroG: !s
grizz: you can't bid !s to show your shape, because that is a reverse
grizz: since pd must go to the 3 level to support your first suit
Canuckstan: 2!c
PedroG: with a doubleton :o
grizz: yes, this is one of those rare cases where you must bid a 2-card suit!
grizz: IFF 1NT is forcing
grizz: not in this auction of course, with N being a passed hand
PedroG: 1NT is forcing only on 2/1 right Pete
grizz: right
grizz: though many sayc players use it too
grizz: 1NTF and NMF are common in sayc circles
PedroG: yes
grizz: right, in this auction 1NT by the passed n hand is only semi forcing
PedroG: I'm delving on that, but inv. minors will come first I think
grizz: ok, let's try another
grizz: ack
PedroG: this happens to me a lot
grizz: some random thoughts here
grizz: it's almost always right to pass with length and strength in ops' suit, for several reasons
grizz: and even with opening strength
grizz: X is wrong, without at least 3 cards in the other suits
grizz: and you must have at least 1 4-card major
grizz: so X would be way offshape
grizz: the other reason is
PedroG: 1S it's not better
grizz: if ops don't have a fit, it is less likely that we do too
PedroG: well I can't see it :)
grizz: one other choice for S here is a 4-card !s overcall
grizz: but that suit is not good enough, even white vs. red
grizz: same argument for N to pass 1!h
grizz: aha
grizz: S knows a lot more about the hand now
grizz: EW are on a misfit
PedroG: North has Spades
grizz: so NS probably is on a misfit too, though that is not certain
PedroG: he must have S
grizz: y
grizz: if i'm S, i pass and hope that W prefers to !d
PedroG: Being White try to push them futher
grizz: ok
PedroG: maybe not wise
grizz: we will play this one again
grizz: after we're done here
grizz: notice the lead here
grizz: big !h tends to deny !h honors
grizz: and suggest !c honors, thereby confirming the auction
grizz: that is not a given - he could have length in minors, but strength in majors
PedroG: ok
grizz: not a terrible result
PedroG: no
grizz: but look what happens if you don't bid 2!s
PedroG: did I declare it wrong Pete
grizz: no, that was fine
PedroG: ok
grizz: W must decide between showing the extra !h or preferring to !d
grizz: with only 7 points, it's a terrible choice
grizz: either could be wrong
grizz: especially since there are many hands with 4!ds and 5!cs but minimum points where E would bid that way
grizz: so !c might be the garden spot
grizz: and !d could be a 4-2 fit
grizz: so W is really on the hot seat here
Canuckstan: passing !Cs also makes sure east goes no higher
grizz: and can justify any of those 3 bids in the post mortem
grizz: right, but that could be a 4-2 fit too
grizz: there are no guarantees on this hand
grizz: choice of evils, i think here is preferring to pd's first bid suit
grizz: ok, there is a rule about defending a hand when you have length in trumps.   remember what it is?
PedroG: force declare to ruff
grizz: bingo!
grizz: don't go looking for ruffs yourself
grizz: look to force declarer to ruff, and lose control of the hand
PedroG: so lead spades in every opportunity
grizz: N knows from the Rule of 11 that E has only one higher card
grizz: but he doesn't know which one it is
grizz: so must play high
Miksa: I E doesn't have an A, then S lead low from AK?
Miksa: And if South have an A, why he lead low?
Miksa: no, please you do, my English is not good enough
grizz: Miksa points out that N should know that E has the !SA
grizz: because if S has it, then he led low from AK
grizz: or Txxx
grizz: and therefore N should NOT cover
grizz: good catch   :)
PedroG: :)
Miksa: ty :)
->Miksa: :)
grizz: ok
grizz: N rates to have 1 or 2!ds
grizz: very good
PedroG: If I lead a honor put J on good position
wyoming33: why not the !K this way makes J good
PedroG: and spade no way 
Dianne0516: better to lead K !d there?  Keep off board with good spades?
grizz: kibs are saying that the !DK is better, and i tend to agree
grizz: because then the J is smothered on the board, and 9 is promoted
grizz: r u sure you want to do that?
PedroG: well not really
PedroG: but if ruff low ?
grizz: you have successfully shortened E in trumps, so now is not the time to shorten yourself  :)
grizz: pitch a !s
grizz: heavy sigh
grizz: now you are endplayed
grizz: let's go back
grizz: and see if you can take yourself off the endplay
grizz: your Q is boss, and the 9 will be when the J is gone
grizz: this was the point where you wanted to ruff high, and i talked you out of it   :)
grizz: so ruff with the Q here, as you tried to do earlier
grizz: then burn the J
wyoming33: still same isnt it
grizz: y, same result
PedroG: yes but only -80
grizz: right
PedroG: the other was -150
grizz: ok, i think it's time to wrap it up for today
PedroG: ok Pete
grizz: any questions first?
PedroG: not from me 
grizz: and thx kibs, hope you all enjoy this as much as i do - tormenting poor Pedro
PedroG: :)
grizz: for my teaching schedule and archives of old lessons, go to GrizzBridge.com, look on the Lessons and Archives page
grizz: thx all, and adios til next week