norrito1 (Lobby): Hi Pete ->norrito1: shall we work in the main club this week? some kibs are curious and i don't know whether they belong to the club norrito1 (Lobby): I like inter adv myself but I follow you- grizz: hi norrie, glad we got together again grizz: sorry about the last 2 weeks norrito1->Lobby: grizz lesson in club Intermediate/advanced ...kibs welcome grizz: is there anything you would like to work on? norrito1: the 5nt after minorwood was a bit unsure grizz: ok grizz: hang on, i'll look for a hand norrito1: otherwise random fine grizz: you upgraded from 19 because of the 5 card !d suit? norrito1: SI SEņOR norrito1: same as 14 for 1nt grizz: let's open 1!d so we can do Minorwood norrito1: ok grizz: i don't object to the bid, but it louses up the lesson norrito1: ok I follow de boss man norrito1: inverted I guess grizz: right smudge1: is it forcing in 2/1? grizz: 10+, !d fit, no major grizz: forcing to 2NT or 3 of a minor smudge1: thanks. grizz: you must be thinking slam here grizz: so 4!d is Minorwood norrito1: we doing stoppers grizz: that's one possible continuation grizz: normally you bid stoppers up the line looking for 3NT grizz: but you have a much bigger hand than usual, you are looking for slam grizz: if north had bid anything else you had a 2NT rebid grizz: and this is Minorwood lesson, so bid 4!d :) grizz: now let's talk about why grizz: if you bid 4NT RKC, and pd responded !h or !s, you would be committed to the 6 level grizz: that's fine with THIS hand, but might not be with others norrito1: so up line rkc now ok norrito1: 1430 grizz: so now 4 of the agreed minor substitutes for the 4NT ace-asking bid in RKC grizz: with step responses, just as in RKC. grizz: we play 1430, so one step up is 1/4 - 4!h is 1/4 grizz: 4!s is 0/3 grizz: 4NT is 2 without the Q grizz: and 5!c is 2 with the Q norrito1: ok grizz: so now you know that we have all the controls norrito1: went for pencil grizz: so count tricks grizz: 2!s grizz: 1!h norrito1->Lobby: Grizz lesson in main lounge kibs welcome grizz: 5!d grizz: and 1!c grizz: possible ruffs in both hands, and dummy is strong enough for a dummy reversal grizz: so let's find out about Kings grizz: next step up asks for Kings grizz: unless next step up is trump, then go one step past grizz: here is a feature of RKC that is often misunderstood grizz: if you play 1430 for aces, you do NOT play 1430 for Kings too - 0,1,2,3 grizz: but there is another possible treatment, Specific Kings norrito1: I was taught specific Kings grizz: and then you bid the suit of your lowest King, denying any lower ranking one but not denying one of higher rank grizz: one other nuance grizz: in this auction, what should North bid if he has both the !HK and the !CK? norrito1: 6!C grizz: answer: in this auction, !h is lower ranking than !C!!! norrito1: I hope lo grizz: if you bypass !h, you deny the K in that suit norrito1: OK grizz: so by "lowest ranking King", we mean relative to the present level of bidding grizz: so now let's count again norrito1: up the line grizz: 2!s tricks grizz: 2!hs grizz: 5!ds grizz: and 1!C norrito1: ok grizz: and possible !h ruffs norrito1: so? grizz: you know that you have the !SK, so 6 is probable grizz: but unless you also have the !cK 7 is out of the question norrito1: yup grizz: so how to discover whether partner has the !CK? grizz: you cuebid the !SK, with 5!s grizz: and give pard the opportunity to show the !CK if he has it norrito1: ok grizz: so 5!s both asks and tells - tells about the !SK. and asks about the !CK grizz: N does not have the !CK norrito1: so 6!D means no K!C grizz: :) grizz: you know that with 100% certainty now grizz: so the only question is, 6!d or 6NT? norrito1: ah grizz: 6NT scores a little better grizz: at imps the difference is minimal norrito1: maybe 6nt just that !C grizz: but at matchpoints could be huge norrito1: oh yea grizz: because at imps the score is based on how MUCH you beat the field by grizz: and at matchpoints it's based on how MANY pairs you beat grizz: at imps, !D is the safer contract - you can ruff losers in either hand grizz: at NT, making might depend on a finesse norrito1: always afraid of !C grizz: so, is that your final answer? lol grizz: excellent norrito1: I am a coward Pete grizz: if a !c lead knocks out your only stopper, then NT might go down grizz: so pass is correct at imps, for sure norrito1: I must rcord this hand ok grizz: sure grizz: so, do you have any questions about the Minorwood auction? grizz: and do you see how it is superior to 4NT? norrito1: cheaper lol anyazas: is it possible to ask for trumpQ? grizz: :) norrito1: I like cheap grizz: a kib asks: is it possible to ask for trumpQ? norrito1: Ok i have the hand recorded grizz: yes, same as in RKC grizz: after one step or two, showing 1/4 or 0/3, next higher non-trump bid asks for the Q norrito1: need brain working grizz: i'll look for a hand grizz: this one will do norrito1: topic? grizz: also Minorwood grizz: Q ask this time grizz: but good question grizz: choices are 2!c inverted, or 2NT grizz: with good !c support, inverted is better here norrito1: unless flat 4333 yes? grizz: good controls, so if N is strong slam may be in reach grizz: y, or 4342 or similar grizz: 4!C here shows a really good !c suit, extras, and slam interest norrito1: I mostly have 5 supp I hope grizz: y grizz: 2 controls without the Q is 3 steps up grizz: 4!d is 1/4 norrito1: 4!C a continuation minor wood yes'? grizz: 4!h is 0/3 grizz: 4!s is 2 without grizz: the Q grizz: now grizz: N knows about the Q grizz: what if you had bid 4!d or 4!h? grizz: let' norrito1: will use 4nt to ask? grizz: let's pretend you have only 1 control grizz: sorry, you must respond to the ace ask first grizz: the player who initiates Minorwood can ask for the Q, but not the responder norrito1: I was ahead of myself sorry norrito1: making it more complicated grizz: next higher notrump suit asks for Kings grizz: bad example, i'm trying to make this hand do something it wasn't designed for, sorry grizz: !CK is an RKC control, and you already bid it :) grizz: North now knows that you are missing the !DK grizz: so 6!c is plenty high grizz: so this should make easily grizz: pull trump, ruff a !s in dummy and !h in hand norrito1: always a !D loser grizz: and we are in luck to find the !DK onside grizz: i will look for a Q ask hand now norrito1: claim norrito1: Ok got it grizz: well, i don't have a Minorwood Q ask in my bag of tricks here norrito1: no matter grizz: but the scheme is the same as for 4NT RKC, if the the ace reply does not make reference to the Q, then the next higher non-trump bid asks for it grizz: rebid of trump denies grizz: any questions? norrito1: ok so always NT ask Q' grizz: no, not always NT - next higher non-trump bid, IFF the response does not mention the Q wyoming33: not kings? norrito1: next higher'? norrito1: ok grizz: either Specific or Number, according to your agreement grizz: is that clear? wyoming33: no wyoming33: seems on this hand that the 4NT is asking for the Q grizz: on this hand 4!s denies the Q norrito1: so there is no need to ask again grizz: sry all, that was NOT clear grizz: 5 of the agreed minor IS a signoff, not a K ask grizz: so norrito1: it is complicated but going in Pete tks grizz: in a Minorwood sequence, there are 2 possibilities: steps one or two do not say anything about the Q grizz: steps 3 or 4 do deny or affirm the Q, respectively grizz: if the auction denies or affirms the Q, then the next higher non-trump bid asks for Kings grizz: if the response says nothing about the Q, then the next higher non-trump bid asks for it grizz: does that make sense? wyoming33: yes - thx norrito1: and nt asks if not known yes? grizz: no 4NT is not always the K ask, depends on the prior auction grizz: think: is this the next higher non-trump bid or not? norrito1: like if dont know' panim: 4s shows 2 controls without the Q - corr? grizz: in this auction, that is correct grizz: Minorwood uses step responses, just like RKC panim: no need to ask for the Q right? panim: so the next up would ask for ? grizz: only the suits vary, since either 4!C or 4!d might be the asking bid grizz: if the ace-asking responses affirms or denies the Q, then the next higher non-trump bid asks for Kings bluehi: ok grizz: either Number of Kings, or Specific Kings, depending on your partnership agreement panim: and u play specific kings - the light went on :) ty for your patience norrito1: got it ,tks for your patience grizz: :) grizz: there is no right or wrong treatment, just a matter of partnership agreement grizz: though there is a source for what is considered "standard" norrito1: we agreed spec Kings ok panim panim: with you grizz: Bridge World Standard uses Specific Kings anegada: seems more useful (specific) grizz: http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=bw_standard&f=bwsall.html panim: agree - with specific bid :) norrito1: tks pete re minorwood. grizz: i was looking for the specific reference, but don't want to waste more time norrito1: 12/14 bal grizz: anybody think N should take action with 10 hcp? panim: nice intermediate cards norrito1: 5 carder? Dianne0516: You have pretty good intermediate cards grizz: i would deduct a point for the 4333 shape grizz: but add it back in for the good spot cards wyoming33: still only 24 max panim: white - go for it grizz: and decided that unless jeff meckstroth was declaring, 24 hcp doesn't make game norrito1: hey wait I play it grizz: but willing to take another call if ops get in grizz: should E reopen? and if so how? grizz: with doubleton !h X is risky grizz: there are no 'safe' suits grizz: but who wants to sell out for 1NT? onoway: maybe push n/s to 3nt making (I think) if east bids grizz: possible norrito1: nobody but us play NT at our table lol grizz: lol grizz: now is a good time for delayed !s support grizz: with KQx and ruffing value in !d norrito1: many do moysians straight off grizz: ok norrie, switch seats and declare this one ok? norrito1: I like some shape type hand (BBO crashes again)