norrito1 (Lobby): how are you?. norrito1: Random is fine grizz: doing much better, and glad to say so :)private.KIBS welcome !H grizz: hmm grizz: difficult hand here norrito1: yes I needed to force grizz: right rq4mulae: i haven't said anything yet, but i'm happy to be right, Pete grizz: lol norrito1: hi kibs !H grizz: ok norrito1: we have to muff bob ok Pete lol grizz: the 2!S said nothing about !Ss, it was artificial and 4SF grizz: lol grizz: and in a misfit auction like this, but with lots of points, we should be thinking about NT norrito1: yes norrito1: seems like it grizz: and you have good !s stoppers norrito1: but need also to show I have the !H anyway more grizz: if i had doubleton !h support, i should have bid it last time instead of !d norrito1: need 3 no? grizz: perhaps, but in an auction like this doubleton is OK too grizz: since you have no minor support, and i have no !h support, we are now scrambling to find a 7 card fit or NT norrito1: at a pinch? grizz: now on this hand it happens that I have a !s stopper, so will bid NT norrito1: but did I not ask for stop? Pete grizz: but with the AQ9, it would would be better for you to bid it than me norrito1: yes I see grizz: you showed a long !hs suit norrito1: just passing the buck lol grizz: so you had the choice between showing the long !hs OR showing the !s stopper for NT norrito1: so after 3!D just go to 3nt norrito1: = shows stop anyway grizz: that would be fine on this one grizz: right, bidding NT shows the !s stop norrito1: ok got you. grizz: and here is a good point grizz: at some point in the auction, each player must stop describing his hand, and make a decision about where it should play grizz: with your hand, i rate it a coin-flip whether to show the extra !h length or the !s stop norrito1: y grizz: and the deciding factor for me would be the relatively poor suit quality of the !hs grizz: and the great !s suit norrito1: was interesting grizz: and the K in my long suit grizz: all should suggest that NT is a better spot than !hs grizz: however norrito1: y K !D full value grizz: those little !hs won't take many tricks in NT, though they will take a lot of tricks in !hs grizz: y, the !dK pulls full weight here grizz: so i have no major criticism of 3!h, it does accurately describe your hand and keeps the auction open grizz: the risk is that I do NOT have a !s stop, and will scramble above 3NT norrito1: I see that grizz: anyway, we got to the right place :) grizz: we don't need to play this, do we? norrito1: nope grizz: 12 top tricks grizz: even though it's a misfit norrito1: any questions kibs? grizz: the !dQx is a godsend rq4mulae: any concern about 3c tenace as perhaps only entry for NT with void in p's long suit? norrito1->Club: 10 !C becomes stop no? wyoming33: !C lead not so good grizz: the !c suit is not a source of tricks, but is strong enough to withstand attack grizz: the 9 and T are big cards, and of course the A stands guard grizz: in NT, that !d suit is huge grizz: and you see the value of honors working together grizz: N has 3 of the top 5 norrito1: !S handy entries grizz: so if S has even 1 honor, the suit will take 5 or 6 tricks grizz: right grizz: entries in both the black suits grizz: so it makes 4!s with the 3-3 split, grizz: 1!h, grizz: 6 fortunate !ds, grizz: and a !c grizz: :) norrito1: slam then grizz: and you see a 26 point NT hand that makes 6!!! grizz: with only 1 trick from that 6-card !h suit! grizz: very unusual grizz: and not biddable, except under clinical delusion :) norrito1: random grizz: yup norrito1: is good always something new grizz: ready for another? norrito1: fire away grizz: excellent norrito1: just enough grizz: we have a very unusual situation here norrito1: My old mentor called it the mother lode grizz: with the overcall side using a help suit game try grizz: let me explain that more fully norrito1: ok I hold on grizz: the 1!s overcall could be made on 8 hcp norrito1: y grizz: or anything higher, up to about 17 or so grizz: where i would X first, to show a huge hand grizz: but it's a very big range grizz: with a bare overcall, i would rebid a meek 2!s norrito1: y grizz: in this auction, with a full opener i would rebid 2!s, since you are a passed hand grizz: but i'm not ready to give up on game here, so 3!c is a HSGT, only 3+ but asking for help in the !c suit for game grizz: now your !cJ is pulling its full weight grizz: and you should accept the game try, by bidding 4 norrito1: yes grizz: you can see all the hands now? norrito1: yes norrito1: just makes if play !S right grizz: right norrito1: 1 loser in others grizz: and with West doing the bidding, N liked his hand - sitting behind the bidder grizz: great position for his tenaces norrito1: great game to reach after me pass grizz: notice that W should finesse the !hK in dummy norrito1: I would not do without a BIT of shape I guess grizz: if he flies with the A, then the K and Q are both winners norrito1: yes grizz: so now we go to dummy to finesse trumps norrito1: please claim this one is good example of cue bid grizz: N falsecards the 9, hoping to talk W out of leading another !h grizz: but W is too smart for that :) norrito1: I never fool anyone lol grizz: lol norrito1: nice q lead grizz: must stay in dummy for another finesse, in case it wins norrito1: y grizz: notice one other thing, that you would never find at the table but it works here rq4mulae: isn't S a bit light for cue even with 4c support? since overcaller might have only 8 hcp, seems that direct advance - especially with good honor in opened suit rather than ... rq4mulae: shortness - more descriptive, no? norrito1: I missed the movie drat grizz: the cue is fine, since S is a passed hand, and the cue won't get us too high if N has only 8+ grizz: same hand here norrito1: oh ok norrito1: ok didnt look yet grizz: N can still sign off in 2!s, and we have stolen the 2!h bid from W in case he wanted to use it rq4mulae: key point being PH, y grizz: right, very important barbhow: what is PH? grizz: passed hand grizz: this time N is a little sharper grizz: and he counts !hs now grizz: in the original auction, W opened 1!h norrito1: assuming 1!H bid? grizz: so W must have at least 5 norrito1: y norrito1: &1 grizz: so the lead from E was either stiff or doubleton norrito1: y grizz: with the play in !hs at Trick 1, he now has 2!h tricks in the bag grizz: unless E ruffs 1 grizz: so grizz: N pulls East's trump teeth, sacrificing the !sK but preserving a !h trick norrito1: very nifty norrito1: Hi new kibs!H grizz: on this hand, it still goes down grizz: but the trump play is something you should have in your bag of declarer tricks TheoKole: isn't it a better play to go up with the King of hearts and "force" west to part with the Ace at trick 1 grizz: let's try it and see rq4mulae: don't X, Norrie! grizz: same hand norrie, so pass here grizz: now what? grizz: J sets up the T rq4mulae: small diamond TheoKole: club grizz: now E can't get back to W for the !h ruff grizz: except with a !d rq4mulae: lead !dQ! grizz: so on this layout, the !hK is the better play at Trick 1 grizz: if W ducks, S just runs the trump finesse at Trick 2 grizz: so that play caters to W having the !sK and E having the !c entry grizz: notice how big the !hT and 9 are here norrito1: y grizz: they work almost like honors grizz: are there any other questions about this hand? norrito1: no Tks Pete norrito1: anyone? grizz: one more then norrito1: si seņor grizz: for newcomers, we played the same hand 3 different ways, and took a shortcut to save time. we bid it out first all the way grizz: choices here grizz: do you play Drury? norrito1: yes Pete norrito1: all of them grizz: ok, reverse? standard? 2-way? rq4mulae: i recommend only 1 at a time, however. :) grizz: let's assume 2-way for this hand grizz: lol norrito1: 2way upsieide down lol grizz: so 2!c shows a 3-card limit raise grizz: 10-12 hcp, 3!hs grizz: lol grizz: oops grizz: 2!d in 2-way shows a 4-card LR grizz: your !hs are really nice, but i only count 3 :) grizz: 2-way reverse Drury does not change the meanings of !c and !d grizz: only the responses by opener norrito1: I use 2!C for 4 supp here no grizz: let's check and see norrito1: its ok I am using upside down norrito1: 2 way bergen is 4 yes agree grizz: bridge guys does not seem to have a page for 2-way reverse drury dee_dee_20: 2!c =3 2!d =4 in my notes:) with 2way reverse grizz: so i can't check it quickly norrito1: will use bergen drury ok grizz: i would rather nail down Drury norrito1: 2 way bergen you are right grizz: since it is often misplayed moedraznin: looking it up grizz: ok, dee dee agrees with me, and i'm 99% sure grizz: that even with reverse 2-way, !c is 3 dee_dee_20: and I could be 99% wrong lol:) grizz: lol grizz: i don't think so moedraznin: Yet another treatment is Two-Way Reverse Drury, where 2C shows the 4-card raise and 2D shows the 3-card raise. grizz: let's start with a pass bhr: 2-way upside drury is: 2!C shows 4 card and 2!D shows 3 crd grizz: as with so many conventions in bridge, there are alternative treatments norrito1: yes grizz: and it is very important that you and partner are on the same page grizz: ok, let's play 2-way reverse upside down kenberg: www.bridgesqueezescomplete.com/bridge/56.html has it like Norrie, altho I had never heard of that one b4 grizz: btw, what would be the reason to play it that way? grizz: except pure darned cussedness? norrito1: rofl norrito1: s use reverse & skip bergen drury & do 2 way upside down grizz: ok, let's bid this one again norrito1: ok grizz: your turn to pass grizz: 2-way reverse upside down drury, with a half twist? grizz: sounds like an olympic dive norrito1: on the rocks norrito1: ok we do 2 way yes ? grizz: sure, let's play your system grizz: 2!d, i know what that means now grizz: test grizz: yo norrie norrito1: ok grizz: must be on a beer run grizz: 2!d norrito1: dont tell all Pete grizz: lol moedraznin: found another site which is opposite (they call it 2 way reverse drury or "bergen drury") norrito1: 2 way 4 supp norrito1: 2!C = 3 supp dee_dee_20: yes the reg. one easier:) grizz: sure, easier to remember, less is less, more is more norrito1: my opinion of the upside down was get info quick maybe get out moedraznin: this is from WWW.BRIDGHANDS.COM grizz: not much difference between 2!c and 2!d, either way grizz: your bid kenberg: My guess is that with four card support there might be a game even opposite a slightly light openeing, and 2C gives a little more room for exploration norrito1: still stop in 2 but no matter dee_dee_20: norrie you need to undo to bid it grizz: hmm grizz: bbo problem, it seems grizz: so let's just talk it through LadyStar17: Sometimes a problem with the redeals on teaching tables grizz: 2!h shows a hand unwilling to go to game opposite a LR dee_dee_20: hmmmm dee_dee_20: that shows light opener ? grizz: could be 8+, could be a full opener grizz: but no extras norrito1: any other bid ongoing grizz: 7 losers in N grizz: right, and would show a second suit panim: 6 grizz: so let's say that N is an optimist norrito1: so we trying all yes? grizz: 7 losers per Losing Trick Count, 2!hs norrito1: as examples? grizz: 2!d grizz: and 2!c grizz: lol grizz: 6 grizz: new math, 6=7 grizz: we are probing for game here, not slam norrito1: so help grizz: so N's second bid is a suit grizz: excellent norrito1: on your play yes lol grizz: lol no guarantees, amigo kenberg: Making 6, no? grizz: what should E lead here? norrito1: non expected Pete norrito1: ds can be evil at times norrito1: the cards moedraznin: 6!s norrito1: maybe 5 tricks? grizz: makes 5 or 6, depending on how you gues the !d and !cs norrito1: no ruffing kenberg: y grizz: and whether you lead !ds, or ops do norrito1: yes !D can do with luck grizz: with the 9 card !c fit, the percentage play is to bang down the A and K grizz: and hope that the Q is stiff or doubleton in either hand norrito1: draw &make long suit grizz: sure grizz: one other thought here grizz: pull trump and strip both the hands of !s grizz: then play !cAK grizz: if the Q falls, you must guess the !ds grizz: if not, exit with a !c and hope that the Q hand must lead a !d for you grizz: the other way to play the !d suit would be to run the J, or hook the T norrito1: that looks good grizz: so we have another new tool, the drury bid grizz: and lots of experience with the different variations grizz: which underscore the value of firm understanding between partners grizz: since there are so many ways to play a similar convention norrito1: great .well tks Pete for good lesson & all kibs for coming grizz: my pleasure norrie, and thx to the kibs for their valuable insights too grizz: i hope to see you next week isabable: thank you so much bhr: Many thanks. norrito1: see Ya,ll next week same time grizz: bye now