norrito1 (Lobby): hi Pete ->norrito1: hi! ready? norrito1 (Lobby): si señor grizz: let's see, last time we worked on a couple defense hands, then a couple random declarer hands grizz: should we do that again? norrito1: no sir just the 2nt hand & play norrito1: Jacoby 2NT grizz: ok norrito1: sounds fine grizz: let's play with the robots for a while norrito1: ok I dont mind kibs joining grizz: ok, we have 8 so far norrito1: w would hav 40 if ANNOUNCE bluehi->Lobby: 2/1 lesson table, all welcome to watch, private lesson grizz: thx mary :) grizz: nothing much to talk about here grizz: perfect bidding norrito1: DOWN1? grizz: lose 1!s, 1!d, 2!c grizz: hook the 9!s first round grizz: then hook the J norrito1: YES CANHOOK TH J s! grizz: use !h for transportation norrito1: J!s norrito1: SO1 YSSIR grizz: W is marked with the J after first round of trumps norrito1: YES SAW after looking grizz: 3!s is splinter, X is lead direction grizz: 03/14 norrito1: y grizz: some theory about slam leads grizz: vs. small slam, aggressive lead is usually right norrito1: & passive grand grizz: not so vs. grand, Job 1 there is not to give anything away grizz: right grizz: vs. small slam we are known to have some face cards, so you need to go about establishing tricks right away norrito1: but likely a single !S grizz: sure, but no better plan available til after you see dummy and signals norrito1: I cant lead grizz: so vacuum up that stiff with the A, don't worry about setting up a trick for declarer because the X protects the suit norrito1: cant lead my ace grizz: mouse does not work? grizz: hmmm grizz: let's start this one over norrito1: all working norrito1: laptop mous &pad ok grizz: btw, when playing against the GIB robots, you can click on their bid and call up a description grizz: robots play 2/1, so that's a good way to practice bidding norrito1: I did pete see alrts grizz: right, that was for benefit of kibs norrito1: splinter & 0314 grizz: y grizz: still can't lead the A? norrito1: swap & try lead grizz: hmmm norrito1: makes no sense never seen this before happen norrito1: ok I move back now grizz: there have been some strange things happening on bbo lately norrito1: lots happen on tournies grizz: programming glitches grizz: program allowed 2 revokes on one hand!!! kenberg: I will be intersted to see which way the Bot plays hearts norrito1: kibs can talk Pat as long as not hog ok!H grizz: when there is a stiff on dummy and leader wins the trick, 3rd hand gives suit preference signal grizz: low card = low side suit, high = high, trumps don't count norrito1: can we use J denies here against suit contract? grizz: sure norrito1: ok so I did lol grizz: i encourage it, less memory work grizz: nothing more to talk about on this hand norrito1: sorry I erred was a !h grizz: no defense works, good bidding grizz: no, trump suit does not figure in with suit preference signals norrito1: yes ok !D was ok lol grizz: so eliminate the short suit and trumps, that leaves only 2 side suits grizz: high card = high suit, grizz: low card = low suit grizz: and middle card says no preference grizz: wondering why you chose to bid !ds there? norrito1: well guess cam alive aces_pat: is hearts not correct bid? grizz: don't you think !hs would be better? grizz: you aren't strong enough to reverse into !h norrito1: yes grizz: and that would distort your shape anyway norrito1: I counted 5 6 sorry norrito1: its 6 6 grizz: aha! grizz: very strange shape, 6-5-1! grizz: leads me to another thought norrito1: rofl will put specs on grizz: you should get in the habit of thinking about hands in terms of shape grizz: 4333, 5332, etc grizz: start with your own, and remember it during the play of the hand grizz: and try to figure out ops' too grizz: from the bidding and play to the first few tricks norrito1: not thinking grizz: hard to keep running totals on honors, length, etc otherwise grizz: ok, count losers grizz: decide whether to compete, pass or X grizz: showing !h values grizz: saying !h lead is OK anegada: the gibs need to come to your classes grizz: robots are frisky today! norrito1: ouch grizz: unusual save norrito1: N V grizz: y, and i think 6!s makes grizz: very distributional, according to the bidding norrito1: wow grizz: let's do that over grizz: ok, look at the hands now grizz: does 6!s make? kenberg: yes norrito1: y grizz: so here is a rule: on freak hands, when in doubt bid one more kenberg: but only because a club is ruffed w the ace instead of a spot grizz: vul was favorable here grizz: and ops bid freely and strongly to slam grizz: they were not sacrificing grizz: and off lots of points grizz: 10 in south, and at least K or A!H in north grizz: so must be very distributional grizz: still a gamble grizz: it is said never to bid 5 over 5 grizz: so what do you suppose those folks would say about 7 over 6??? grizz: ops won when they bid 6 grizz: lol it won't work every time, but spectacular when it does grizz: down side is this: grizz: they are in the overcall position grizz: and the field will not find a slam in the overcall position grizz: well, maybe the Vanderbilt or Reisinger field would! grizz: but not mere mortals grizz: so even though the slam makes, and the sac is good, it will still be a bad matchpoint score grizz: heavy sigh grizz: but that's the best we can do grizz: any questions? norrito1: no I am just getting over it lol grizz: yo, anybody still awake? norrito1: the heart !H dont like it grizz: you would not take the sac? grizz: i cannot criticize a pass there norrito1: I guess it was ok but split ugh grizz: not a sure thing that 6!s makes grizz: but that kind of auction tips you off that there are freak hands around the table grizz: and the rules are all out the window on freak hands norrito1: I got that yes norrito1: you like me to suffer I say grizz: lol grizz: speaking of freak hands!!! grizz: do you play the rule of 2 and 3? norrito1: no grizz: ok, good to know grizz: when making preemptive bids, the Rule of 2 and 3 applies norrito1: oh yes grizz: if NV, you have 3 tricks less than the bid in your hand grizz: if V, 2 tricks norrito1: 2 top or 3of 5? grizz: different rule grizz: so as responder, you count 'cover cards', not points or distribution norrito1: so Vul & N V tc ok norrito1: ok grizz: so N should have 9 tricks grizz: vul, 9=2 =11 norrito1: if vul grizz: and contract is for 11 tricks grizz: you have 2 cover cards, the !CAK norrito1: so I ned 2 for slam grizz: no grizz: you need 2 to let the contract make! grizz: so you have a smooth pass here norrito1: wd grizz: notice a couple things here grizz: EW had a !s fit too, that they never found grizz: not really east's fault either norrito1: well preempts do that grizz: 5 over 5, especially over a preempt, rarely works norrito1: so rule 3 grizz: ? norrito1: if I have 3? tricks norrito1: like outside ace grizz: 3 top tricks, you might think about slam norrito1: ok just confirming grizz: probably depends on the lead, and ops only get one chance to get it right grizz: but grizz: if you do have controls, don't bid the side suit! grizz: that will draw a roadmap for the defense grizz: just blast to the slam, and hope ops don't find the killing lead norrito1: maybe a wild negX from E? norrito1: negs x up to7 lol grizz: most pairs only play neg X through 3!D or so norrito1: 3!S 4!D? grizz: up to the ops to decide how high, so check cc if in doubt grizz: most pairs want to be able to make penalty X of 3 level major contracts norrito1: can work with !H support norrito1: negx grizz: and E has a bad penalty X with no trump tricks norrito1: yes can confus just nice to talk grizz: ok, any other questions about this fun hand? norrito1: no Pete it WAS fun norrito1: thats the game I say never forget is FUN grizz: rules are good to know, but the 'whys' are more important than the 'whats' grizz: one comic said that you need to know what the rules are... grizz: so you can break them properly grizz: here is another interesting point grizz: in a competitive auction, the first AND second X are usually for takeout norrito1: we use hsgt? grizz: second one is rarely for penalty grizz: sure norrito1: ok grizz: undo? for a different bid? norrito1: bidding ok? grizz: sure grizz: lol grizz: sure grizz: wait norrito1: ok grizz: how do you plan to play the !s suit? grizz: we can do something here that we can't do at the table - find the best line before we play norrito1: small to dummy norrito1: then see grizz: go to this website: http://bridgehands.com/P/Probabilities_Miscellaneous.htm grizz: scroll down to the bottom, and go to grizz: http://bridgehands.com/S/Suit_Combinations.htm grizz: these are listed by how many hcp the ops have grizz: here they have the AJ, so click on <5> grizz: now scroll down to the number of cards you have in hand and dummy, here it's 8 grizz: looks like Case 32 is similar to this hand grizz: you sometimes won't find the exact combination grizz: but you will get close enough grizz: Column 4 shows how many tricks you need to win in the suit grizz: Column 6 shows the play grizz: and Column 5 shows the odds of success grizz: you are not expected to learn the whole chart, but look for patterns grizz: ops don't make 3!d, lose 1!s, 2!h, 1!d and 1!C grizz: but competing was right grizz: 5 losers norrito1->Club: was hoping on !C grizz: only 14 hcp, no aces, so good stop at 2 grizz: but also good to compete norrito1: ifaif ace!C E is ok grizz: that decision will be right on this kind of hand more often than wrong norrito1: ac wrong place grizz: y grizz: 1 more? norrito1: you dont make life easy for me Pete grizz: lol not my job! grizz: lol another tough choice here norrito1: I sem to be losing a lot character buidling job grizz: lol norrito1: not 4? grizz: what are your bid choices here, and pluses and minuses of each? grizz: let's rule out passing :) norrito1: 1!S (or4) grizz: what would the Rule of 2 and 3 say? norrito1: y grizz: vul, so Rule of 2 applies grizz: here you have 7!ss grizz: +2 (Rule) = 9 grizz: so you are safe opening 3!s grizz: but grizz: you might miss slam if pd has a good hand etoilee: why not opening at 3sp norrito1: too strong grizz: you might miss slam if pd has a good hand grizz: y, too good for preempt grizz: aha! pd has good hand grizz: one other possibility, before we move on norrito1: so we are playing 2/1 GF? grizz: y norrito1: OK good grizz: this is Club2/1 isn't it? lol grizz: wait norrito1: OK grizz: one other possibility for bid at first chance huber225: :)) grizz: gambling 3NT! grizz: usually a minor suit, but can also do it with a major norrito1: yes but gur DOES NOT play 2/1 for club grizz: ??? grizz: does not teach 2/1 in Club2/1? norrito1: he just does conventions for us as he likes sayc grizz: does not compute norrito1: but he is so good w have him grizz: lol sayc is fine, if you like playing with half your brain tied behind your back norrito1: I think 2/1 is easier opinion grizz: 2/1 is the new, improved sayc norrito1: sayc has different ways grizz: with lots of gadgets to help you make tough decisions grizz: it's more nuanced, but takes lots of the guesswork out of bidding norrito1: 2/1 yes just an extension of sayc grizz: exploring for NT, denying !s support, and warning about !cs norrito1: so 3S! slf sufficient ys' grizz: y, but wouldn't you make that bid off the !SK? grizz: but compensating value elsewhere? grizz: i think 4!s is better here grizz: denying any interest in NT norrito1: showin weak¿ grizz: or concern about !s grizz: but 3!s is ok grizz: assuming that pd won't pass you out norrito1: no hurry norrito1: g f grizz: be aware of one possible problem grizz: there are 3 flavors of 2/1, at least grizz: one is, any 2/1 bid is GF grizz: 2. only 2/1 over major is GF grizz: so 1!d-2!c is forcing only 1 round grizz: 3. 2/1 is GF unless one pd bids and rebids his suit norrito1: I play that gf too grizz: ok, just putting you on notice that some pds will pass that bid norrito1: !ts 1!C 1!D can b a prob grizz: you need to be on the same page with pd norrito1: its simpler ALL g f grizz: i play 1!d-2!c as forcing to 2NT or 3 minor norrito1: I like make life siple for PARD grizz: it depends on partnership agreement grizz: ok, let's assume it's GF norrito1: I tend to go for hardy grizz: sure, the system was his baby to start with grizz: but lots of other opinions now from other experts grizz: another sidebar grizz: do you know where to look for the best expert opinion on what standard practices are? norrito1: no grizz: http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=bw_standard&f=bwsall.html grizz: 38 pages of expert opinion on what standard bidding practices are grizz: some topics have minority reports grizz: so when questions come up at the table, you can refer to a real authority norrito1: hope get time to read em grizz: these opinions change over time, but BW keeps up. last poll was taken in 2001 norrito1: cant claim grizz: my claim button doesn't work either, a bbo problem i think norrito1: no its nO claim on teaching tables grizz: no, usually i can claim - in fact i did earlier here, today norrito1: ah well what do I know !H grizz: how many losers in the S hand? grizz: lol norrito1: 6 bluehi: 6 grizz: and in the north? bluehi: 6 grizz: so ltc says it should make 6? grizz: 18-6-6=6? grizz: important concept here grizz: LTC shows you how many tricks the hand CAN make, if you have enough aces grizz: true grizz: just pointing out a danger of overusing the LTC grizz: see how many hcp ops have? grizz: 17 grizz: 23 hcp is low odds on bringing home a slam without a double fit grizz: here it depends on 2 finesses grizz: in the red suits grizz: so another lesson here: go slowly on slam exploration when opening a subminimum like the South hand grizz: norrie's bids were perfect grizz: 2!s and 3!s put the brakes on grizz: any other questions? norrito1: norrie make bad ones lots!!H norrito1: no tks maestro grizz: most of the ingredients were here grizz: ok, i need to rustle up a coffee before next lesson, PedroG in the BIL at the top of the hour grizz: ok, will see you next week then norrito1: this is good for ALL to watch grizz: adios a todos norrito1: see y,all!H