grizz: hi all, sry about the confusion norrito1: sorry all I am banned from club2ovr1 grizz: i won't even ask about the hassle, doesn't concern me and i hate politics norrito1: and my 2nd name too grizz: heavy sigh cc1313: totally agree Dianne0516: Welcome to the club of x-banned people norrito1: lets do some bridge better grizz: nevertheless, i do this in appreciation for all the time and energy you devoted to the club, and the squabble does not change any of that grizz: so what would you like to work on today? norrito1: I am so mixed up random will do Pete grizz: ok, let's see what bbo has to offer us today :) bluehi->Lobby: grizz mentor table open all welcome grizz: r u sure you want to pass? this hand is perfect for a negative X norrito1: ou are right grizz: 7+ is enough for a neg X at the 1 level grizz: and you have great shape grizz: why don't you move to N and play this norrito1: too hard for you Pete? rofl grizz: lol grizz: ops will play udca, if that's ok with you norrito1: ok try to rmember grizz: or standard, if you prefer :) norrito1: its ok udca grizz: ok grizz: well, not much to talk about here :) norrito1: nope grizz: except maybe the opening lead grizz: any lead from the East holding is likely to give up a trick to the nt bidder grizz: and passive leads don't usually work against low level nt grizz: so though it's not a good idea to underlead an ace either, that was the best of the possible evils here Dianne0516: can underlead A in nt, can't you? norrito1->Lobby: lesson in club advanced/intrmediateClub Grizz PrivateBut kibs may join ->Dianne0516: open chat, plz :) Dianne0516: You can underlead in nt, can't you? grizz: it's not a terrible idea to underlead an ace in nt, but far from the top of the list norrito1: maybe try unbid major grizz: sry, i lost the hand already babalu1997: shouldn't the ace be flanked by at least some minor honours against NT? grizz: ordinarily, yes norrito1: so q? grizz: but frequently you have a hand where no good lead stands out grizz: in that case, you must take the best of the bad ones grizz: so eliminate the worst, then second worst, then third grizz: leading from KJ98x was terrible, worst possible grizz: !cxx was next worst Old York: South's double showed hearts....so no unbid major? grizz: right grizz: Qx had possibilities grizz: but no support norrito1: I just bash out q!H norrito1: they didnt bid it grizz: that would be ok too grizz: neg X babalu1997: well partner too overcalled spades, giving 7+ cards between the 2 of them grizz: the neg X 'bid' !h, without bidding !hs grizz: so there was no unbid major grizz: N did not support, so has 2 or 3 grizz: so W has 4 or 5 grizz: but the !d suit had possibilities, with A8xx grizz: coin flip between the red suits grizz: either could be right, but both black suits were clearly wrong grizz: ok, perfect hand for a new convention grizz: do you know about Jordan? norrito1: yessir norrito1: many dont use it minors norrito1: but works here grizz: ok, it sends the same message about strength, without the misleading inference about fit norrito1: nd 5!C yes norrito1: ok I try it grizz: true, some folks play 'criss-cross' grizz: let's talk about this for just a minute norrito1: undo lt try bluehi: please grizz: it's one of those areas where a minor misunderstanding can cause catastrophe grizz: here is Jordan: grizz: let's start with majors grizz: 1!s-X-? grizz: with limit raise in !s, 2NT shows that hand norrito1: 2nt grizz: right grizz: if you play Jordan over minors too, then 2NT shows LR and !c support Old York: alert? grizz: yes grizz: ops are entitled to the same information about conventions that partner has grizz: perfect cc1313: LR =Limit Raise? ->cc1313: y cc1313: oh got it grizz: IF you play Criss-cross, the treatment is opposite for the minors norrito1: if not I blame old mentor lol grizz: lol bwd1: is that also called "flip-flop"? grizz: FF, yes bwd1: ty :) grizz: so playing straight Jordan, 2NT is LR+ in !c here norrito1: h didnt get much wrong on alerts grizz: if playing FF, then 2NT is a junk raise in !cs bwd1: yes :) grizz: and 3!c is a good hand grizz: huge difference bwd1: need to make sure pard is on same wave-length tho grizz: right norrito1: so opposite to inrted raise if ops bid' grizz: right grizz: IF playing FF norrito1: ok grizz: interesting problem here norrito1: please no F words grizz: E would not bid if red, but sticks his nose in white vs. red grizz: shows a real !c suit norrito1: or would pass norrito1: likely grizz: and W is feeling frisky, figures if pd can venture 3, then 4 might make :) grizz: musical chairs again :) norrito1: 1S losr 1!D grizz: yup, !c slam is cold norrito1: 2losers DonFree: no 4!H cue bid by N to look for slam? ->DonFree: not possible, must bid 5, and then committed grizz: question is whether there should have been slam exploration here Old York: South can "see" !s shortage with N? grizz: first remark is that it's no disgrace missing a 22 hcp slam grizz: y, S knows that N must be short in !S willover: how about a splinter 3!s response to 1!c? grizz: and with great controls, S might be interested norrito1: cant show !D 5!D so rkc? poss'? grizz: !s splinter is a good idea norrito1: how so? grizz: shows good hand, !c support and !s shortage norrito1: !S ? grizz: 1!c-X-3!s norrito1: I thouht about !H babalu1997: economical too, if opener can stand no trump grizz: y, but this doesn't look like a nt hand from either side grizz: so let's back it up Old York: South could splinter, too babalu1997: some play that a splinter over a dbl shows a void grizz: that would be an unusual treatment, could be either stiff or void in standard methods norrito1: I hav wron hand so? bwd1: after 3!S S can cue 4!D? grizz: but NOT a stiff Ace Old York: alert? lol babalu1997: right norrito1: I cant see n hand grizz: lol everybody else can! bwd1: as 4!D is below game can it be 1st or 2nd control? norrito1: but I bid from N lol grizz: now N is showing interest in at least game in !c grizz: right grizz: so that triggers a cue sequence grizz: !!! norrito1: sorry !C bwd1: 4!S? grizz: y!! norrito1: can I bid !C plase grizz: 4!s now, showing the !SA bwd1: "I have the A" grizz: you are sharing information now grizz: 4!d showed the A grizz: very good! bluehi: sa garnd slam ask bluehi: ? grizz: grand slam force bwd1: grand slam? grizz: says 'pd, if you have 2 of the top 3 honors bid 7' grizz: otherwise bail in 6 bwd1: shd it not be !S4 from S then blackwood from North? grizz: several ways to bid this one grizz: i really like GSF bwd1: what about the !D grizz: might not make bwd1: might not .. grizz: might be a squeeze, but doesn't look like it DonFree: interesting to back up and look at squeeze grizz: unfortunate grizz: but let's go back to the auction norrito1: at least had practice grizz: you were N, and i bid the S hand, opening a subminimum 1!C with good controls and great shape grizz: and an OK suit grizz: problem here was launching into GSF with subminimum hand grizz: cooperation with the cuebid sequence was perfect grizz: but the GSF was a bit much bwd1: If North uses Bkw can get controls and then perhaps look for !DK? grizz: if small slam is within reach, then grand should be at least 67% grizz: some say 90% Old York: 4!C waiting bid, then North's 4!H denies !D control....so no Grand? grizz: not possible with regular BW when !c is trump grizz: because any answer over 5NT takes you beyond 6!c bwd1: only use to 4nt? grizz: but i will show you a treatment that solves this problem norrito1: but can us 3014 when its !C grizz: 3 kings are missing! grizz: so answer helps only if you play Specific Kings grizz: let me show you another way grizz: have you ever heard of Minorwood? norrito1: yes bluehi: no grizz: let's bid it again Old York: is it where hobbits live? bwd1: is that next suit up after bkd? babalu1997: 4s in place of 4nt? grizz: 4!c asks for aces grizz: with RKC step responses grizz: 4 of the agreed minor asks for aces grizz: and the 3!s bid agreed that !c is trump grizz: whether you play 0314 or 1430, the 4th step is 2 with the Q babalu1997: i think max hardy has another name for it, but cannot remember what it it grizz: 4nt Old York: seems logical in GF grizz: now you know about all 5 controls grizz: ordinarily the next step up asks for Kings grizz: but here one step up is the trump suit grizz: which is where you bail out if you are missing two controls grizz: so N has no bid over 5!c grizz: therefore you must use another bid if looking for kings grizz: and trust partner to use some bridge logic grizz: because odds are slim that you have ever discussed this auction! grizz: so 5!d would ask the king question norrito1: from S? grizz: y grizz: very unusual sequence, but very unusual hand grizz: i would just bid 6!c here grizz: and forget about kings grizz: 6!c grizz: as i started to say earlier, when you are in the slam zone and small slam is possible Old York: If N has red king = 7!C :) grizz: grand should be at least 67% grizz: some say 90% ckleiber: and you can't lose a finesse:) grizz: maybe it's somewhere in the middle grizz: but in any case, you need to be able to count the tricks before making the bid grizz: and of course without seeing dummy norrito1: 4nt asks ? bwd1: is there a difference in the % between MP's and IMP's ? grizz: the 4NT was a step response to the 4!c ask norrito1: ah grizz: do you play 1430 or 0314? norrito1: 1430 grizz: ok, then 4!d would be 1 or 4 grizz: first step grizz: second step is 4!h grizz: 0 or 3 norrito1: 3 0 grizz: third step 2 without the Q grizz: 4th step, 2 with the Q norrito1: 2+ grizz: right norrito1: ok grizz: true that if N has a red K, 7 makes norrito1: so I ask 1st king? grizz: so a judgment call now grizz: whether to ask for kings cc1313: omg bridgeguys MINORWOOD is 11 pages long my desk is groaning grizz: but you see that you can't ask the question with 5!c? grizz: since that would be your bailout bid missing 2 controls grizz: no got 'em kings grizz: note that it would be wrong to bid 5!s, showing second round !s control grizz: since N already bid the shortage norrito1: the King ask needs to be rmembered grizz: y, special case here - grizz: ordinarily the next step up from the answer is the next question grizz: but here, one step up is the bailout bid and can't use it for both purposes grizz: elegant auction there norrito1: for sure better grizz: but beware, Minorwood is only for partners with steel trap memory, and prior discussion grizz: are you dizzy yet, or would you like to see yet another solution? norrito1: do it !H grizz: lol cc1313: another solution to same hand?? grizz: yes grizz: OK, here is another alternative to Blackwood grizz: let's bid it again, and we will see Kickback in action grizz: wait norrito1: ok tell grizz: in Minorwood, 4 of the agreed minor is the ace ask grizz: in Kickback, it applies to all 4 suits grizz: and one step above the trump suit at the 4 level is the ace asking bid grizz: so 3!s agreed that !c is trump bluehi: is kick bak easier grizz: therefore 4!d is Kickback, asking for aces at a lower level than BW grizz: less memory work, since it applies to majors too grizz: step responses again, assume RKC - whichever flavor you play grizz: 4!h=1/4 cc1313: i vote for kickback, is only 3 pages long :) grizz: 4!s=0/3 norrito1: I like I sentance CC grizz: 4NT=2 without Q cc1313: hey I'm the on trying to simplify bridge for the masses! lol grizz: 5!c = 2 with Q grizz: lol cc1313: pete has convinced me it's impossible rofl grizz: same decision now, just different tools norrito1: Can we still K ask? grizz: sure, next step up now is K ask grizz: and next minefield to tiptoe through! cc1313: how does one choose the right line? norrito1: SO 1ST K' grizz: first of all, if you play 1430 for aces, you do NOT play 1430 for kings too grizz: 0,1,2,3 norrito1: SPECIFIC grizz: but you need to have agreed with partner whether to play number of kings, or Specific Kings grizz: no kings, pard grizz: easy answer on this hand DonFree: what is usual treatment of 5NT in this sequence (after 5!D)? norrito1: ok thats my lot pd grizz: 5NT would show the unbiddable K, the !DK grizz: unbiddable, because you already bid that suit! grizz: lol say goodbye to simple bridge! cc1313: boy howdy norrito1: life gettin hard grizz: all these gadgets were created to solve problems grizz: and sometimes create more problems than they solve grizz: so they are not for casual partnerships cc1313: lol norrito1: if on same wave length grizz: imagine all the misunderstandings possible here! grizz: and i have seen some doozies among top level pros norrito1: nice word grizz: i guess we should move on now? norrito1: yup !H norrito1: if did all th possibilities may be here all day lol grizz: lol grizz: don't you just hate it when this happens? anegada: :( norrito1: yup had a nice inverted raise norrito1: cant cue lol Dianne0516: Opponents bid to annoy you grizz: easy 1!H bid if E hadn't stuck his big nose in grizz: so what are the choices? norrito1: maybe neg x but high murphyslaw: 4nt grizz: most folks only play neg X through 3!d or 3!h grizz: first question: grizz: should we declare this hand or defend it? grizz: does it look like game or slam? grizz: same questions as always, 'what strain?' and 'how high? grizz: uh oh grizz: did his head explode? Dianne0516: You blew him out of his seat, Pete grizz: rehi :) norrito1: it froze grizz: lol my keyboard is smoking too! norrito1: had to o & return grizz: same questions as always, 'what strain?' and 'how high? grizz: problem for N now norrito1: play safe coward me Old York: too many undos bug the system....dummy revoked last nigjt :) grizz: aha, i have seen that happen before grizz: no !s trouble grizz: from the N point of view, i call this a 'show me' hand grizz: as in, 'show me the hand that is good enough to bid 5 but doesn't make 6' norrito1: hope to ace !S grizz: pd must have an opening hand, with stuff in all the outside suits grizz: AND !d fit grizz: after you, amigo grizz: must be very careful here grizz: what is your plan after drawing trump? norrito1: try for !C grizz: sure !h loser, how to avoid losing a !c too? grizz: missing the QJT, there is no way to crash all the missing honors grizz: bingo! lorellaine: discarding !c losers on !h winners norrito1: thats a better game grizz: y, but how many are available? DonFree: only 2 dishes grizz: yup grizz: so S had a hand that DID make 5, but DIDN'T make 6 grizz: heavy sigh grizz: and the !s preempt did just exactly what it was designed to do Dianne0516: Can't you set up clubs? grizz: sure, but not without losing one norrito1: !C hard Dianne0516: I see grizz: and lost the !HA already norrito1: !H more sure grizz: a near miss grizz: but fun hand anyway grizz: one more? norrito1: yes its fun to lose !H grizz: lol norrito1: yes great norrito1: dont like the jacks grizz: your bid, amigo norrito1: but indicates hand tc grizz: sure, best available bid grizz: Cappelletti overcall, showing a long suit grizz: remember Lebensohl? norrito1: y grizz: good, just checking :) norrito1: so no stop in !C' grizz: right DonFree: are you playing fast denies or slow denies? grizz: but GF values grizz: SSS Slow Shows Stopper norrito1: cant be real !Capp grizz: that is the default treatment norrito1: would bid 3!C no? grizz: no, but need to have a tool over Capp norrito1: if capp grizz: so 2NT is still relay to 3!c, even over artificial interference norrito1: so I just pass with stop ok? grizz: 2 level bid is still NF and natural grizz: 3 level is still GF Old York: Stayman? norrito1: or bid best minor lol grizz: and since you can't know what the real suit is, simplest is to assume it's !c grizz: two possible treatments for Stayman with !c overcall grizz: 1. X is Stayman norrito1: yes I do that one grizz: 2. 3!c is Stayman, with OR without a stopper Old York: thx grizz: one of those situations where you can't be perfectly clear, because of the overcall grizz: again, need partnership discussion and agreement Old York: shout at the screen? grizz: some folks refuse to give up the penalty X of NT interference grizz: lol grizz: my guru calls those 'little-old-lady doubles' grizz: so he plays X as Stayman grizz: and i do too grizz: first count your tricks Dianne0516: Hey--watch it--I'm a little old lady :) ->Dianne0516: lol norrito1: as usual need 1 Old York: !SQ lead to avoid Bath Coup? ->Old York: interesting norrito1: they bein clever Old York: partner drops !SJ or signal count ->Old York: sure, we talked about that yesterday in my BIL session leonora3: when first playing on BBO though LOL was referring to little old lady Old York: sry, missed it :( ->leonora3: rofl! grizz: question leonora3: all bridge articles pre bbo referred to LOL grizz: were you thinking of taking the !c finesse at some point? norrito1: no but maybe should grizz: what are the dangers on the hand? norrito1: from !D norrito1: !S !H grizz: W did not return a !s, so that must be E's real suit grizz: danger is that W has the !HA norrito1: y grizz: and E has the !CQ norrito1: that 2nd suit thing grizz: yup grizz: but if you don't hook either the !C or !h, where is the 9th trick coming from? grizz: good news, but bad news too norrito1: yes cc1313: great session, lots of info thx for allowing kibs grizz: since your only entry to the !c, if good, was !d :( ->cc1313: :) norrito1: needed long undo grizz: so let's back it up norrito1: make you work grizz: think about this grizz: W has showed up with the !HQ so far, and nothing else grizz: assume E has the !SKQxxxx norrito1: YEA grizz: would he have more for the overcall? grizz: asked another way, is he likely to have the !HA? norrito1: NV MAYBE NOT grizz: could be a 5-7 hcp overcall grizz: but not likely norrito1: Mybe 11 ish grizz: better working assumption grizz: so give E the !HA grizz: and now there is no !h danger grizz: so the !c finesse is free :) norrito1: so J H makes the K grizz: so you are not so worried about W having the !HA grizz: and you are not so worried about E getting the lead grizz: et voila! norrito1: take them & run? grizz: 9 tricks in the bag now, 10 if E has the !HA grizz: at imps, take the tricks and run grizz: at matchpoints, play E for the !HA and lead low to the dummy lorellaine: 9!h to the K!h? grizz: do you understand the difference between imp strategy and mp strategy? norrito1: its a problem yes mp & imp grizz: at mps, the score is based on how MANY pairs you beat norrito1: bst try !H now grizz: at imps, it's base on HOW MUCH you beat them by grizz: so at mps, you sometimes risk a bottom to get top grizz: and this is a good risk, since E almost has to have the !HA to have enough points to bid norrito1: so !H to J grizz: noooooooooooooooo! cc1313: lol grizz: play E for the A, so lead low !h from your hand norrito1: ok cc1313: think norrie has a lot on plate today ->cc1313: y ->cc1313: i'm trying to keep it light cc1313: yes, and doing it well :) grizz: wd! norrito1->Club: yes wd Pete !H grizz: look at the E hand now grizz: and W too grizz: and see that E needed to have the !HA for his bid grizz: after W shows up with the !HQ grizz: most folks will not overcall a strong NT on 7 hcp grizz: and BTW, it's even goofier to overcall a weak NT on 7! grizz: one other point too, that Old York brought up, regarding the opening lead grizz: we talked about this yesterday in the BIL norrito1: Tks for all you are doing Pete and kibs seeing me be pulled to pieces lol!H grizz: E has a !S suit that will run when the A and J are cleared grizz: lol you are a good sport grizz: back to the lead grizz: since the suit will run when the A and J are cleared, there is a special lead from this sequence norrito1: so drop an honour grizz: !SQ grizz: asks specifically for W to drop the J, if he has it norrito1: or q lad too grizz: otherwise to give count grizz: does not help on this layout, but is spectacular when it does grizz: OK, lunch time here unless there are more questions norrito1: tks again Pete & all norrito1: adios!H Dianne0516: Thanks Pete :) grizz: my pleasure Norrie, I appreciate all you have given to BBO and Club2/1 Old York: Thx :) All v clear (with sub-folders) lol grizz: lol grizz: thx ops, seeya next weekend norrito1: byeeeeeeeeeeee